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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2017 5:42:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure that I even like the exhausts on these big scoots. I like the looks and the weight savings, but in some clips they don't sound much different than small scooters. They don't have the wild sportbike idle that I enjoy and it's a constant tone. I do enjoy revving the 150 up at people, but just cruising I can't say I'm a huge fan other than the whole being heard argument. I don't think there's a lot of power there, from things I've read so far. On the other hand, some claim to go 5MPH faster... but being from the land of small scoots and big claims I'm not trusting of everyone's reports. On a related note, I was listening to exhaust clips and came across this. I must say, if you're this guy and seem to be ashamed that you are on a scooter and not shifting so much that you must emulate it every time you accelerate... maybe a motorcycle would have been a better idea. I personally don't care. Yeah, it's a scooter and I ain't shifting... and yeah, I'm having more fun than the people bothering to hate on a scooter.  The kids round here ride their mopeds like that. My wife is always saying to me "I just don't get it!"  I guess I prob shouldn't say much. When we had a Grand Marquis (1987 with a 5.0L), it had the foot style emergency brake. I would tap it and chirp the tires as if it were doing it shifting (I didn't abuse that car at all lol). I decided to try it all the way into overdrive one day and the brake didn't release and I wound up spinning down the road at 70MPH. Felt like it was going to roll at first and wasn't far from hitting a pole. That ended my chirp shifts.  I didn't really care if anyone thought I was shifting, it was just for laughs, but it's dumber than what they're doing. |
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Post by lordverminaard on Apr 7, 2017 10:35:49 GMT -5
Wow that's a huge difference in noise. I wonder if MPG's are affected in any way? Nice work and great video as always!
Brendan
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2017 11:07:14 GMT -5
Wow that's a huge difference in noise. I wonder if MPG's are affected in any way? Nice work and great video as always! Brendan It will definitely use more fuel now ...because I didn't want to ride it the way the stock shield was. I haven't filled it up yet, so I don't know how it did with the screen to know if it changed without. I just tried to look at fuelly to see if that would tell anything. I only used the ones that I could see had windscreens or did not (or had the little sport screen). With = 46.9MPG, without = 47.8MPG. I don't think that tells us anything though. Some of them are way off. I tossed out the crazy stuff, but one has 100+MPG, one is only in the 30s. It would have to be done with the same rider in similar conditions to be accurate. My WAG is it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to me unless I get on the highway for a long stretch. |
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Post by Senna1Rossi on Apr 7, 2017 11:27:40 GMT -5
You're gonna redo the red wheel pinstripes, right?
What's next on the agenda? Are those Power Pure tires smooth and grippy??
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2017 13:24:10 GMT -5
You're gonna redo the red wheel pinstripes, right? Yeah. That's the first "mod" I've ordered. I enjoy the idea of the red stripes, just not the execution. What's next on the agenda? I'm looking into a top case and maintenance stuff right now. I priced a belt, which is allegedly supposed to be changed at 12,500 miles, and that's $140. The last time I bought a belt for my Malossi OR CVT I thought it was bad enough to spend $40-$50 on one. At least I can do the work. I read a blog post that came up when I was searching for belt info from someone saying their dealer wanted $198 for the belt plus two hours labor. So he's in for something like a $350-$400 bill for a belt swap. You've gotta take a bunch of side panels off and some exhaust bits to get to it. It seems the design to make the TMAX more sporty also makes it tougher to work on than some other maxi-scoots. The top case stuff is a little tricky. I initially looked up top cases for the TMAX and ugly things that have bars going down below the rear lights for support popped up or strange sheet metal aluminum racks. I like the styling of this scooter, so I'm not onboard for that. I'd prefer to leave it as-is, but if I end up going anywhere that I can't or don't want to ride round trip in a day then I will need a little more than what's under the seat for storage. Would be kinda nice to have the seat area for locking up my helmet and routine bits if I did wanna carry something as well. So first I came across THIS rack (4B5-F48A0-V0-00) from Yamaha that they list for $675.  I did find it listed on other sites for as low as $120 (and as high as $1,100!). Then I found 59C-248D0-00-00 which is for 2012+, but retrofits to the 2008-2011 like mine. It was on a Canadian site for $240. Then I found a post on a forum (forget if it was the Majesty forum or ADVRider now) that said the US part number is 59C-F48D0-V0-00. That one goes for $140 HERE. Looks like you have to drill a hole in the rear fairing for it, but it looks good enough that I could deal with leaving it on so there wouldn't be a hole. Now I'm forgetting exactly why some said it's better (case mounting style?), but I have more searching to do anyway. Then everyone is talking about needing certain top cases to work with the racks. If you go with Yamaha parts for the case, then you're in $200-$250 for the top box. I read somewhere that the GIVI Monolock was essentially the same as some cases from Yamaha or made by GIVI. There's a mount for that for one of those racks (I'm so lost in what I thought was a simple task for the moment) that is for Monolock series cases (ABA-4B551-13-00) for about $20. Not sure if that's needed or not. A large GIVI case, the E470) is $117.50 HERE. You can add lights to it (some say the boxes sit so far back that it may block the tail/brake light) for about $50, a gloss black top cover to match the scoot for $80, and a bag that makes loading and unloading the case quick for $35. I never had a clue that it was almost required to spend this much money if you want something clean and decent quality. Not sure what I'm doing at this point. I'm not used to all of this from my cheap scoots. I got away from cars because everything is so darn expensive, but it looks like the motorcycle industry is right there with them. I also thought life was supposed to be easier once you got a brand name scoot so you could just find everything you need by make and model when you aren't looking for obscure things. So much for that idea. I think it's easier to just weld stuff onto ugly Chinese scoots and make parts work. lol In defense of other maxi-scoots, I believe life is easier if you just buy a Burgman because they're so much more plentiful and they have large communities devoted to them rather than a thread or a section on some other forum. Are those Power Pure tires smooth and grippy?? Feels good to me so far, but to be fair I have wide chicken strips and the whole scoot feels different to me. |
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Post by Senna1Rossi on Apr 7, 2017 15:04:22 GMT -5
140 for just the belt... yeah, I think everything for the Maxi-scoots will be several times over the typical scooter costs. At least you'll do most of labor yourself, so that's good. That $675 just for a metal bracket is ridiculous... sheesh!
Well, basically you have a high-performance motorcycle in that TMax, so I'm sure it will be all relative. I'm sure you will get used to it being different than the typical small scoots, like I had to get used to these not being a motorcycle... heh.
Awesome. Curious what psi you were running with almost 500 lbs of scoot under you. You need to spin that rear coming oot of corners to test traction limit! heh
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2017 20:24:16 GMT -5
Curious what psi you were running with almost 500 lbs of scoot under you. You need to spin that rear coming oot of corners to test traction limit! heh 33 front, 41 rear as the manual says for 198lb loads and above. On a related note, Japanese owner's manuals are actually useful for more than laughs over poor translation.  |
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Post by Florida Antique on Apr 7, 2017 21:35:24 GMT -5
Brent,
Congrats on the maxi scooter! The TMax is really a great scooter. Everything I have read on them really compares them to sport bikes. does it have a pivoting swingarm? A riding buddy of mind has a Honda Silverwing and the swingarm\variator case pivots. They say that makes it handle much more like a motorcycle. I am riding a Reflex Sport now and I like the way I am able to keep up with highway speed traffic too. Of course it would be even nicer to have double the engine size like you have in your TMax. I have the sport version of the Reflex so it has a shorty windshield. I bought a Givi tall windshield and put it on over the winter but last week I pulled it back off because of the warmer weather and put the shorty back on. From what I understand, as far as mods go, with 4 stroke maxi scooters, the best bang for the buck is to work on the variator. Good luck and enjoy the ride, Maybe we need a Maxi Scoot section on 49ccScoot now.
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Post by Florida Antique on Apr 7, 2017 22:08:06 GMT -5
You're gonna redo the red wheel pinstripes, right? Yeah. That's the first "mod" I've ordered. I enjoy the idea of the red stripes, just not the execution. What's next on the agenda? I'm looking into a top case and maintenance stuff right now. I priced a belt, which is allegedly supposed to be changed at 12,500 miles, and that's $140. The last time I bought a belt for my Malossi OR CVT I thought it was bad enough to spend $40-$50 on one. At least I can do the work. I read a blog post that came up when I was searching for belt info from someone saying their dealer wanted $198 for the belt plus two hours labor. So he's in for something like a $350-$400 bill for a belt swap. You've gotta take a bunch of side panels off and some exhaust bits to get to it. It seems the design to make the TMAX more sporty also makes it tougher to work on than some other maxi-scoots. The top case stuff is a little tricky. I initially looked up top cases for the TMAX and ugly things that have bars going down below the rear lights for support popped up or strange sheet metal aluminum racks. I like the styling of this scooter, so I'm not onboard for that. I'd prefer to leave it as-is, but if I end up going anywhere that I can't or don't want to ride round trip in a day then I will need a little more than what's under the seat for storage. Would be kinda nice to have the seat area for locking up my helmet and routine bits if I did wanna carry something as well. So first I came across THIS rack (4B5-F48A0-V0-00) from Yamaha that they list for $675. I did find it listed on other sites for as low as $120 (and as high as $1,100!). Then I found 59C-248D0-00-00 which is for 2012+, but retrofits to the 2008-2011 like mine. It was on a Canadian site for $240. Then I found a post on a forum (forget if it was the Majesty forum or ADVRider now) that said the US part number is 59C-F48D0-V0-00. That one goes for $140 HERE. Looks like you have to drill a hole in the rear fairing for it, but it looks good enough that I could deal with leaving it on so there wouldn't be a hole. Now I'm forgetting exactly why some said it's better (case mounting style?), but I have more searching to do anyway. Then everyone is talking about needing certain top cases to work with the racks. If you go with Yamaha parts for the case, then you're in $200-$250 for the top box. I read somewhere that the GIVI Monolock was essentially the same as some cases from Yamaha or made by GIVI. There's a mount for that for one of those racks (I'm so lost in what I thought was a simple task for the moment) that is for Monolock series cases (ABA-4B551-13-00) for about $20. Not sure if that's needed or not. A large GIVI case, the E470) is $117.50 HERE. You can add lights to it (some say the boxes sit so far back that it may block the tail/brake light) for about $50, a gloss black top cover to match the scoot for $80, and a bag that makes loading and unloading the case quick for $35. I never had a clue that it was almost required to spend this much money if you want something clean and decent quality. Not sure what I'm doing at this point. I'm not used to all of this from my cheap scoots. I got away from cars because everything is so darn expensive, but it looks like the motorcycle industry is right there with them. I also thought life was supposed to be easier once you got a brand name scoot so you could just find everything you need by make and model when you aren't looking for obscure things. So much for that idea. I think it's easier to just weld stuff onto ugly Chinese scoots and make parts work. lol In defense of other maxi-scoots, I believe life is easier if you just buy a Burgman because they're so much more plentiful and they have large communities devoted to them rather than a thread or a section on some other forum. Are those Power Pure tires smooth and grippy?? Feels good to me so far, but to be fair I have wide chicken strips and the whole scoot feels different to me. The big boxes from Givi are very pricey. The OEM Yamaha's are even more. I think the only people who buy them are the ones buying the bike new and they finance them along with the bike. I found a good alternative to the Givi boxes are Bestem T boxes. T-BOX They are good quality, have the light kit built in, American made and sell for less than $100. You will still have to buy the Yamaha Rack to mount it but at least the box won't set you back so much. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2017 23:07:26 GMT -5
does it have a pivoting swingarm? A riding buddy of mind has a Honda Silverwing and the swingarm\variator case pivots. They say that makes it handle much more like a motorcycle. It pivots, but the CVT is not part of the swingarm. It's CVT is on the right side of the scoot and does not pivot with the swingarm. There's a sort of chain drive gearbox that transfers motion to the wheel. That's what you see on the left side that resembles a CVT cover. Reduces unsprung weight. |
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Post by Florida Antique on Apr 7, 2017 23:27:35 GMT -5
does it have a pivoting swingarm? A riding buddy of mind has a Honda Silverwing and the swingarm\variator case pivots. They say that makes it handle much more like a motorcycle. It pivots, but the CVT is not part of the swingarm. It's CVT is on the right side of the scoot and does not pivot with the swingarm. There's a sort of chain drive gearbox that transfers motion to the wheel. That's what you see on the left side that resembles a CVT cover. Reduces unsprung weight. That almost sounds rather complicated. The Silverwing has a pivot point that is around the crankshaft on the variator side and then over top of the flywheel on the right side so the whole variator\belt\clutch\reduction gears are all part of the swingarm that pivots. The engine is only part that is sprung weight as it is mounted in the frame. If the final drive section of the TMax is small then they really got rid of a lot of unsprung weight. That should really help the handling. |
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Post by drc174 on Apr 8, 2017 0:15:59 GMT -5
Yep, the Piaggios up to 500 have the classic left side setup while the bigger bikes, like my Burgman or the Tmax or even the Gilera GP800 have the right side CVT. (standing behind it) It is.. a little clunky but it also serves the purpouse of weight distribution. If you have seen a naked burgman, it is 75% engine.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 8, 2017 7:18:02 GMT -5
I did some research last night about the racks and top cases for the TMAX and figured it out better than my previous post. If you want to go with a Yamaha rack that is formed like a finished piece (no tubular stuff or sheet metal), then there are 2 options and each uses a different top box mount setup. Option 1 : Rack part number is 4B5-F48A0-V0-00. It replaces the grab bars and requires drilling a hole in the rear top fairing so that an additional bolt can be used for mounting. The cheapest I see it is HERE for $118.62. The cheapest shipping option to me is $33.95, so it would be $152.57. The Yamaha 46L top case, part number ABA-4B561-00-00. The cheapest I've seen it so far is HERE for $152.99. The lowest cost shipping to me is $33.45 for a total of $186.44. Those are all that is required if you want that setup, so the total for the rack and box with shipping is $339.01. This rack should be a GIVI Monolock style mount, and one member of another forum said their Yamaha box had GIVI on it somewhere. It sounds like a deal with Yamaha and GIVI. You would think that means that you could just buy any Monolock style GIVI top box that you want and mount it directly to the Yamaha rack, but I think they found a way to prevent it from being that simple to help them sell more Yamaha branded top cases. Below is a picture of the 4B5-F48A0-V0-00 Yamaha rack and then one of a GIVI Monolock setup. The Yamaha rack is missing the "clamp" in the rear that would make it complete and ready for a Monolock top box.   HERE is more info on the Monolock as well as Monokey lines from GIVI that shows how the cases mount. I've tried to check product details, but neither the rack or the Yamaha box show the clamp piece or list it in included parts. I did find THIS VIDEO though, which shows the rack and case install. In the video, the Monolock clamp is removed from the Yamaha case along with other accessories for the case, so I think you have to buy the case to get it. I can't find the part separately either, but I believe that's the trick Yamaha used to make most buy their box instead of choosing any GIVI. If that little bolt-on clamp could be found separately, one should be able to install it to the rack and then use whatever Monolock case that they prefer. The GIVI cases can be bought cheaper than the Yamaha badged box, come in more styles, sizes range from 26 to 47 liters, offer more accessories, and accessories are also cheaper. If anyone knows of a source for that little clamp, please let me know!Option 2 : Yamaha part number 59C-F48D0-V0-00 is the rack for later model TMAX scooters, but it can be retrofit to the 2008-2011 TMAX according to what I've read. Like the rack in option 1, it also requires drilling a hole in the top rear fairing for mounting, and replaces the stock grab bars. The cheapest I've found it is HERE for $137.99. Estimated shipping is $26.44, for a total of $164.43.  According to Yamaha, this rack is designed for cases that are indeed Yamaha cases (rather than re-branded GIVI cases). HERE is a video where they talk about designing top boxes. There are two options for top boxes that will fit directly to the later model Yamaha rack; a 39 liter which is part number 2PP-F84A8-V0-00, or a 50 liter with part number 2PP-F84A8-T0-00. The 50L is the one that interested me of the two, and I found it HERE for $224.24. With a shipping charge of $43.18 it comes to a total of $267.42. The same place does happen to have the lowest prices that I saw for the rack and the case, so combining them totals $429.85 ($2 less than if purchased separately from that site). Yamaha also offers accessories for the cases; including inner bags, backrests, and a lock set that will allow you to use 1 key for the box and the scooter (that's also available for their 46L case for the other rack). Summed up, option 1 with the older style rack and a 46L Yamaha case is $339.01. That rack and a GIVI Monolock case could be had at varying prices because of the options, but a little cheaper with a similarly sized GIVI branded Monolock case. That is IF the clamp for the rear rack could be found separately. Option 2 with the 50L case would cost $429.85, basically $90 more than the older model Yamaha setup. I like the look of the newer mount with 50L top box, but I can't see how it's worth $430. That's 2/3 the cost of a whole brand new TaoTao ATM50. My next choice would be the older style rack with a GIVI 47L E470 Monolock case for about $330, but again I would need the Monolock clamp. Then there's the 46L Yamaha case with the older style rack for about $340. Even though only $10 separates the 46L Yamaha case and 47L GIVI case, savings will increase when you buy the GIVI accessories vs Yamaha. GIVI also has a lighting kit, and I'm not sure that the 46L Yamaha does unless a GIVI kit will fit it. I also think there's a better chance of getting a GIVI case locally at a reasonable price and saving the $60-80 shipping charge. All of them are more than I want to spend, but I would prefer either a rack like these that looks good or something very easy to remove and install that doesn't require drilling fairings. I think a rack that looks good with a quickly installed case would be ideal for me, so I could even quickly put the case on if I wanted to go grab something from a store, rather than a longer install process that would have me rarely wanting to use the case. I'm sure you can adapt other boxes to the racks listed above, but unless I can get a great savings, I would prefer something to mount directly to the rack for simplicity's sake. I will look into some of the other options out there and post about those as well. My apologies if all this talk about a luggage carrier is boring. I wanted to try and put the info together in one place in a way that hopefully can be easily understood. Please note that I found the lowest prices on items and then checked shipping there. I have not gone around and tried to check shipping charges from all sites to be sure that they are the lowest total prices available. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 8, 2017 7:31:19 GMT -5
Maybe we need a Maxi Scoot section on 49ccScoot now. For now, I'm thinking just leave that to the 100cc+ section. I don't know that we have enough big scoot riders to keep tumbleweeds out of a maxi-scoot section. I will probably end up either creating a thread with just the info bits like the one above or videos I do about the TMAX at least for the tech library to make it easier to find and navigate than just posting it in my (eventually) long build thread only. If we get a bunch of people popping up with big scoots though and much discussion, I will consider it. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 8, 2017 10:13:23 GMT -5
I did a bit more looking at top case mounts. I'm not really digging any of them much. GIVI, Shad, Hepco & Becker, and some others make mounts for various cases. All of the ones I looked at range from $120 to over $200, so I'm not seeing anything much cheaper than the Yamaha mounts and these often involve drilling more holes in the top fairing and/or using tubular supports that go to the fender mount. At least one even replaces the fender bracket with a heavy duty version for the supports to mount to. The example below is the GIVI SR364.  All of the mounts, Yamaha and aftermarket, seem to support 10-15lbs maximum load which is about on par with what most of the non-heavy duty top cases seem to support. I'm starting to think I should just get a Yamaha rack and strap a bag to it if I need to. Downside there is I prob won't bother to take the scooter if I want to grab anything from a store as I would if I had a case that went on in a few seconds to support about anything of reasonable weight that I could throw in there easily and without needing to figure out some way to tie whatever down without scratching/damaging the scoot each time. For any sort of overnight outing that I may take, I don't need much more than a change of clothes or two and a few toiletries aside from riding gear to support different temps. That stuff may even fit in a console bag and under the seat if I lock my helmet outside the seat. The console bag is still expensive for what it is at ~$100 for Yamaha part number 4B5-W0750-00-00.  Part of me feels like a fool putting this much thought into some bags/cases, but I like the way this thing looks and I don't want to ruin it with junk accessories or scratches and nicks from rigging things onto it. Damn, it's so much easier in some ways owning ugly Chinese crap. |
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I didn't really care if anyone thought I was shifting, it was just for laughs, but it's dumber than what they're doing. 
I did find it listed on other sites for as low as $120 (and as high as $1,100!). Then I found 59C-248D0-00-00 which is for 2012+, but retrofits to the 2008-2011 like mine. It was on a Canadian site for $240. Then I found a post on a forum (forget if it was the Majesty forum or ADVRider now) that said the US part number is 59C-F48D0-V0-00. That one goes for $140 
