2011 Yamaha TMAX XP500A Maxi-Scoot
Apr 4, 2017 23:19:37 GMT -5
190mech, ryan_ott, and 12 more like this
Post by 90GTVert on Apr 4, 2017 23:19:37 GMT -5
Many of you know I got my motorcycle license a year ago. I rode around a 150cc GY6 for a while, but it mostly annoyed me for anything other than in town riding because it just wasn't fast enough. I had to be WOT to ride on 50MPH roads and couldn't keep up with traffic on 55MPH highways without a strong tailwind. Headwinds or inclines on 50MPH roads were really aggravating, watching cars line up behind me at times and feeling like a rolling road block. A 155cc kit, cam, variator, timing changes, and some other mods didn't really help. It was better, but the 150 is just not meant to spend it's life on 50MPH+ roadways.
Ever since then, I've been dreaming of a maxi-scooter. I've considered everything from 250cc to 650cc, with a Suzuki Burgman 400 being what I thought I would like. I've always liked the TMAX, but I never see them around. Even the Burgmans don't bring up many results around me. Well, I was browsing dealer inventories and a big dealership in Dover, DE had a 2011 Yamaha TMAX with 10,600 miles on it.
Consideration/Comparison
I started reading and watching reviews, mostly comparing the Suzuki Burgman 400, Suzuki Burgman 650, and the Yamaha TMAX. Just FYI, I'm using around 2008 for the Burgman info but some specs vary depending where you look. I'll go over some of what I researched just in case it's of interest or use to anyone. I separated this into sections so if it bores you, just move on to the next section till you're no longer bored.
The 400 and the TMAX are very close in weight, both just shy of 500 pounds wet (with all fluids and batt). The 650 is around 600 pounds wet. All are really heavy compared to my little 50-150s that may go up to 200-250 pounds. The 650 was noted by many reviews to feel heavy though, and as being less fun to deal with at slow speeds.
The 400 makes 32-33HP, the TMAX 43HP, and the 650 about 55HP. That's about 0.092HP/lb for the 650, 0.086HP/lb for the TMAX, and 0.065HP/lb for the 400. The TMAX and the 650 are both said to be capable of just a bit over 100MPH, and the 400 is just shy of it. Those are all out max MPH numbers, tucked etc... All are capable of cruising at 70MPH, but the TMAX and 650 will do it at lower revs. The Burgman 650 wins the HP war, though some do say the TMAX can out drag race the 650. I've seen mixed info there.
Fuel economy and capacity for the TMAX are 45MPG with a 4gal tank, for a 180 mile potential range. The 400 carries 3.6gal and averages 55-60MPG for roughly a 200 mile range, and the 650 is quite similar to the TMAX with about 45MPG and 4 gallons for a 180 mile range. I checked that all on fuelly.com BTW, to get real world data vs manufacturer specs. The 400 wins there, but compared to my 150cc with a 1 gallon tank and 50MPG to make a 50 mile range they're all great. By the time I ride 150 miles, I wouldn't mind pulling over and stretching my legs while I fill the tank, and the actual fuel consumption isn't a great concern to me, so I was happy with the whole field here.
Both Burgmans nearly double the underseat storage space of the TMAX, but the TMAX still has more than any of my 50-150cc Chinese scooters and claims to fit a full face helmet under the seat. I can tell you that my XXL didn't seem to fit, but it's really close and I browsed the owner's manual and realized I tried every position other than the one they say to use for the helmet. The storage wars are further won by the Suzukis because they are apparently able to accept saddle bags and the TMAX was said to not offer such an option. I'm sure you could do something custom if they aren't out there, but I don't have any real plans for saddle bags so I didn't dive into that area. Any of them are able to fit a top box, which is as far as I expect to go with storage.
Burgmans also win the popularity contest, being far more plentiful than TMAX scooters. They also have a large presence for online support and info and it seems greater parts availability.
The Burgmans appear to be the top dogs for comfort, but I didn't read many complaints about the TMAX and many praised it as well.
Where the TMAX really shines in most reviews that I've seen, is for being the sport scooter because of it's handling. It seems that a lot of effort went into making the TMAX a scooter that doesn't handle like a scooter. To be honest, I don't really know what that means when you're talking about maxi-scoots, because I've never been on one. What the reviews basically say is that the TMAX handles like a motorcycle. It's much less rear weight biased than the typical scooter. It also has the largest wheels with 15" front and rear while the 650 has 15" and 14" and the 400 has 14"' and 13". One review summed it up as something like "don't expect to outrun sportbikes in corners unless you are much more skilled than their riders, but the TMAX is capable of leaving many cruisers behind".
Not that it's truly an important aspect, but the TMAX wins hands down IMO for styling. It looks much more sporty. It really didn't hurt that the particular TMAX that I was looking at appeared to be modified by it's previous owner with some rim tape and decals to make it resemble some of the Raven edition R1s. It just so happens that the mid-2000s Raven R1s are my favorite motorcycle of all time for appearance. I've used them as desktop backgrounds entirely too many times. Here's the Raven R1.
Now, the cost. This will vary greatly depending on the seller, condition, mileage, and other factors... but in general the Burgmans can be had cheaper from what I've seen online. Most of the Burgmans I looked at were $3,500 to $5,000. This TMAX was listed on the dealer's site at $4,995.
With all of that bouncing around in my head, I decided that I'd be very happy to own a TMAX. I wasn't thrilled with the price, but thought perhaps they'd work with me. The fact is, $5,000 is a lot of money to me. So is $3,500 for the bottom of the list of scoots I've been seriously interested in since I really wanted something with 15,000 miles or less and in excellent condition. I've told myself for a year that it doesn't matter what you want, you need to be sensible and not spend that kind of money on anything. Lately, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not gonna die without owning a big scooter and I'd rather enjoy it now than when I'm older. Stupid or not, you only live once. I don't go to movies or out to eat or really much of anything that normal people enjoy. I play the same cheap guitars that I've had for years loudly (not costing me more than a set of elixir strings infrequently) and I ride/wrench on scooters... and dammit... I wanna ride more (notice I didn't add wrench on this one lol) and be able to take one wherever I feel like going.
I sent an email to the dealer telling them that I noticed the scooter had been in their inventory for many months (their quick YouTube video of it gave it away with the info below it) and that it was above any blue book values that I've seen. I told them that I wasn't interested in haggling over it, so give me a good offer out the door with tax/tags/registration. A salesman got back to me and said he worked up some numbers, so give him a call to talk about it. The price worked for me... again not that I want to spend thousands on anything... but I'm getting a big scooter that I like.
I headed up there with my father and bought it after checking it out and everything looking good. No signs of it being dropped or otherwise damaged, runs well, someone had put Michelin Power Pure tires on it that were like new. My only issue was that they are a DE dealer and can't do MD inspections, so what they do is to guarantee that it passes inspection wherever you wish to take it. Once it passes, you give them the paperwork and then they'll send you tags in the mail or you can come get them. For now it's on DE temp tags, but I'm hoping to get the MD inspection done soon. Probably spent an hour and a half at the dealer in total, which is better than most similar experiences because at least you're surrounded by 2-wheel nuts. After a lot of signatures and BSing while waiting, it was time to ride it home.
First Ride/Initial Impressions
The weight of the maxi-scooter worried me a little, because it's been so long since I've been on a big bike and I really never have spent tons of time on big bikes. I've been on 600cc sport bikes and a couple of 700-900cc cruisers, but again really really limited time just getting a feel for friends bikes or practicing parking lot maneuvers and it's been years. The bikes I've been on actually felt significantly heavier than the scooter though, which surprised me. I expected it to feel like a monster after being used to my little scoots, but it wasn't bad at all. It's obvious that there's a lot more bike under you, but it's not intimidating at all even for me who's last ride was on a tiny TaoTao. By the time I was out of the parking lot and through one stop sign, I wasn't worried anymore. Even with a tight turn in a parking lot under construction on the way home, it didn't feel bad at all to maneuver.
Once you get up to speed, it doesn't feel all that much different than steering my 150 with 13" wheels. It does feel much more stable though and handles bumps and such way better than my little scooters. There were 30+MPH wind gusts which I could definitely feel, but the big scoot takes it in stride. Tractor trailers still affect you a little, but not like being on the 50s or 150. I was comfortable with it on the highway, 50MPH roads, or parking lots. There will be some getting used to it left, but I was truly surprised at how it didn't feel much more difficult to operate than the 150 after reading mentions of maxi-scooters feeling extremely bulky from some that came from similar scooters. Maybe many do, but I have 0 complaints with the TMAX there so far.
After the first twisty that I took cautiously, I found myself applying more throttle when going into turns. It may feel similar enough to the small cheap scoots to operate, but it most definitely isn't in the same league for handling. I haven't pushed it by any means, and that's obvious already.
It feels quite nice to get up to highway speed with traffic and not struggle to keep up. It is no rocket by any means, but it gets the job done. I've only had it up to 75MPH extremely briefly on the ride home. My father was following me and unwilling to go much past 60MPH even on the highway. He has diabetes and has a lot of issues with blood sugar dropping if he hasn't ate or drank in a while so I really didn't want to lose him in case he had trouble after the 3 hours or so to ride to the dealer and hang out there. It certainly has more than 75MPH in it is about all I can tell you at this point. I think it will have decent passing power, but I won't be flying by either. I seemed to be hanging around 4,000-5,000RPM riding 50-60MPH. It felt strange to let off the throttle to begin stopping and realize that I was barely touching the gas cruising 60MPH.
One problem became evident as soon as I got above 40MPH. The windshield must change. It directs wind right into my visor and I can't hear much of anything but wind noise to the point that it was giving me a headache on the 50 mile ride home. Not cool. One comment I read in reviews said anyone over 6ft tall should have no trouble with this, but I'm 6ft 2 or so. I could sit up as tall as possible and it would hit me just below the visor, but that's not the way I ride.
I'm not a fan of the small back rest on the seat either. It needs to move back or be gone so I can move around a little more. I see that it is adjustable, but haven't tried taking the bolts out yet to see if it can go any farther back or not yet.
Otherwise, it seems pretty comfy. Not a couch on wheels, but not bad. I actually have more leg room to stretch and move on my smaller scooters, but that's because of adding foot pegs. I can't change positions a lot to stay comfortable because of the raised center of the floorboard, but it's alright. Again if I can change that seat back rest, I think it will help there.
I have no problem at all flat footing the scoot, though some say it's a tall seat height (IIRC 31"). I guess that's not a big surprise at my height, but some of my 50s actually sit higher than the TMAX.
The brakes feel very nice. Leaps and bounds beyond the small scoots, plus adjustable levers.
I've been writing so long that I'm getting tired, so I'm sure I've left out something I wanted to mention. For now though, the back rest and mainly the windshield need to change and otherwise I'm quite happy with the TMAX.
Now for some pics.
You can see one other thing I'd like to fix sometime in the above pics; the rim tape. Whoever did it, didn't do a good job. It's all kinds of squiggly. Not sure how much better I can do, but I think I'll try at some point.
This pic sucks, but you can see that it is a hoss sitting beside the 150. I'll try to get better pics one day of it with the 150 and the TaoTao just for comparison's sake.
It's got 10,661 miles on it now and the owner's manual calls for nearly everything to be inspected at 12,000 miles. I really want to just leave this thing together and ride it. Let it be the scoot that's always ready, while my smaller scooters may or may not be in some level of disrepair. I guess I'll have to get my hands dirty on it before too long though. That said, I've looked into performance a little. It's all very expensive though and cost prohibitive to me, at least compared to 50s. Not saying it won't happen, but probably not real soon. Expect this to be a thread with updates, but not a performance project like most of my scooters.
Sorry to ramble for so long.
Ever since then, I've been dreaming of a maxi-scooter. I've considered everything from 250cc to 650cc, with a Suzuki Burgman 400 being what I thought I would like. I've always liked the TMAX, but I never see them around. Even the Burgmans don't bring up many results around me. Well, I was browsing dealer inventories and a big dealership in Dover, DE had a 2011 Yamaha TMAX with 10,600 miles on it.
Consideration/Comparison
I started reading and watching reviews, mostly comparing the Suzuki Burgman 400, Suzuki Burgman 650, and the Yamaha TMAX. Just FYI, I'm using around 2008 for the Burgman info but some specs vary depending where you look. I'll go over some of what I researched just in case it's of interest or use to anyone. I separated this into sections so if it bores you, just move on to the next section till you're no longer bored.
The 400 and the TMAX are very close in weight, both just shy of 500 pounds wet (with all fluids and batt). The 650 is around 600 pounds wet. All are really heavy compared to my little 50-150s that may go up to 200-250 pounds. The 650 was noted by many reviews to feel heavy though, and as being less fun to deal with at slow speeds.
The 400 makes 32-33HP, the TMAX 43HP, and the 650 about 55HP. That's about 0.092HP/lb for the 650, 0.086HP/lb for the TMAX, and 0.065HP/lb for the 400. The TMAX and the 650 are both said to be capable of just a bit over 100MPH, and the 400 is just shy of it. Those are all out max MPH numbers, tucked etc... All are capable of cruising at 70MPH, but the TMAX and 650 will do it at lower revs. The Burgman 650 wins the HP war, though some do say the TMAX can out drag race the 650. I've seen mixed info there.
Fuel economy and capacity for the TMAX are 45MPG with a 4gal tank, for a 180 mile potential range. The 400 carries 3.6gal and averages 55-60MPG for roughly a 200 mile range, and the 650 is quite similar to the TMAX with about 45MPG and 4 gallons for a 180 mile range. I checked that all on fuelly.com BTW, to get real world data vs manufacturer specs. The 400 wins there, but compared to my 150cc with a 1 gallon tank and 50MPG to make a 50 mile range they're all great. By the time I ride 150 miles, I wouldn't mind pulling over and stretching my legs while I fill the tank, and the actual fuel consumption isn't a great concern to me, so I was happy with the whole field here.
Both Burgmans nearly double the underseat storage space of the TMAX, but the TMAX still has more than any of my 50-150cc Chinese scooters and claims to fit a full face helmet under the seat. I can tell you that my XXL didn't seem to fit, but it's really close and I browsed the owner's manual and realized I tried every position other than the one they say to use for the helmet. The storage wars are further won by the Suzukis because they are apparently able to accept saddle bags and the TMAX was said to not offer such an option. I'm sure you could do something custom if they aren't out there, but I don't have any real plans for saddle bags so I didn't dive into that area. Any of them are able to fit a top box, which is as far as I expect to go with storage.
Burgmans also win the popularity contest, being far more plentiful than TMAX scooters. They also have a large presence for online support and info and it seems greater parts availability.
The Burgmans appear to be the top dogs for comfort, but I didn't read many complaints about the TMAX and many praised it as well.
Where the TMAX really shines in most reviews that I've seen, is for being the sport scooter because of it's handling. It seems that a lot of effort went into making the TMAX a scooter that doesn't handle like a scooter. To be honest, I don't really know what that means when you're talking about maxi-scoots, because I've never been on one. What the reviews basically say is that the TMAX handles like a motorcycle. It's much less rear weight biased than the typical scooter. It also has the largest wheels with 15" front and rear while the 650 has 15" and 14" and the 400 has 14"' and 13". One review summed it up as something like "don't expect to outrun sportbikes in corners unless you are much more skilled than their riders, but the TMAX is capable of leaving many cruisers behind".
Not that it's truly an important aspect, but the TMAX wins hands down IMO for styling. It looks much more sporty. It really didn't hurt that the particular TMAX that I was looking at appeared to be modified by it's previous owner with some rim tape and decals to make it resemble some of the Raven edition R1s. It just so happens that the mid-2000s Raven R1s are my favorite motorcycle of all time for appearance. I've used them as desktop backgrounds entirely too many times. Here's the Raven R1.
Now, the cost. This will vary greatly depending on the seller, condition, mileage, and other factors... but in general the Burgmans can be had cheaper from what I've seen online. Most of the Burgmans I looked at were $3,500 to $5,000. This TMAX was listed on the dealer's site at $4,995.
With all of that bouncing around in my head, I decided that I'd be very happy to own a TMAX. I wasn't thrilled with the price, but thought perhaps they'd work with me. The fact is, $5,000 is a lot of money to me. So is $3,500 for the bottom of the list of scoots I've been seriously interested in since I really wanted something with 15,000 miles or less and in excellent condition. I've told myself for a year that it doesn't matter what you want, you need to be sensible and not spend that kind of money on anything. Lately, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not gonna die without owning a big scooter and I'd rather enjoy it now than when I'm older. Stupid or not, you only live once. I don't go to movies or out to eat or really much of anything that normal people enjoy. I play the same cheap guitars that I've had for years loudly (not costing me more than a set of elixir strings infrequently) and I ride/wrench on scooters... and dammit... I wanna ride more (notice I didn't add wrench on this one lol) and be able to take one wherever I feel like going.
I sent an email to the dealer telling them that I noticed the scooter had been in their inventory for many months (their quick YouTube video of it gave it away with the info below it) and that it was above any blue book values that I've seen. I told them that I wasn't interested in haggling over it, so give me a good offer out the door with tax/tags/registration. A salesman got back to me and said he worked up some numbers, so give him a call to talk about it. The price worked for me... again not that I want to spend thousands on anything... but I'm getting a big scooter that I like.
I headed up there with my father and bought it after checking it out and everything looking good. No signs of it being dropped or otherwise damaged, runs well, someone had put Michelin Power Pure tires on it that were like new. My only issue was that they are a DE dealer and can't do MD inspections, so what they do is to guarantee that it passes inspection wherever you wish to take it. Once it passes, you give them the paperwork and then they'll send you tags in the mail or you can come get them. For now it's on DE temp tags, but I'm hoping to get the MD inspection done soon. Probably spent an hour and a half at the dealer in total, which is better than most similar experiences because at least you're surrounded by 2-wheel nuts. After a lot of signatures and BSing while waiting, it was time to ride it home.
First Ride/Initial Impressions
The weight of the maxi-scooter worried me a little, because it's been so long since I've been on a big bike and I really never have spent tons of time on big bikes. I've been on 600cc sport bikes and a couple of 700-900cc cruisers, but again really really limited time just getting a feel for friends bikes or practicing parking lot maneuvers and it's been years. The bikes I've been on actually felt significantly heavier than the scooter though, which surprised me. I expected it to feel like a monster after being used to my little scoots, but it wasn't bad at all. It's obvious that there's a lot more bike under you, but it's not intimidating at all even for me who's last ride was on a tiny TaoTao. By the time I was out of the parking lot and through one stop sign, I wasn't worried anymore. Even with a tight turn in a parking lot under construction on the way home, it didn't feel bad at all to maneuver.
Once you get up to speed, it doesn't feel all that much different than steering my 150 with 13" wheels. It does feel much more stable though and handles bumps and such way better than my little scooters. There were 30+MPH wind gusts which I could definitely feel, but the big scoot takes it in stride. Tractor trailers still affect you a little, but not like being on the 50s or 150. I was comfortable with it on the highway, 50MPH roads, or parking lots. There will be some getting used to it left, but I was truly surprised at how it didn't feel much more difficult to operate than the 150 after reading mentions of maxi-scooters feeling extremely bulky from some that came from similar scooters. Maybe many do, but I have 0 complaints with the TMAX there so far.
After the first twisty that I took cautiously, I found myself applying more throttle when going into turns. It may feel similar enough to the small cheap scoots to operate, but it most definitely isn't in the same league for handling. I haven't pushed it by any means, and that's obvious already.
It feels quite nice to get up to highway speed with traffic and not struggle to keep up. It is no rocket by any means, but it gets the job done. I've only had it up to 75MPH extremely briefly on the ride home. My father was following me and unwilling to go much past 60MPH even on the highway. He has diabetes and has a lot of issues with blood sugar dropping if he hasn't ate or drank in a while so I really didn't want to lose him in case he had trouble after the 3 hours or so to ride to the dealer and hang out there. It certainly has more than 75MPH in it is about all I can tell you at this point. I think it will have decent passing power, but I won't be flying by either. I seemed to be hanging around 4,000-5,000RPM riding 50-60MPH. It felt strange to let off the throttle to begin stopping and realize that I was barely touching the gas cruising 60MPH.
One problem became evident as soon as I got above 40MPH. The windshield must change. It directs wind right into my visor and I can't hear much of anything but wind noise to the point that it was giving me a headache on the 50 mile ride home. Not cool. One comment I read in reviews said anyone over 6ft tall should have no trouble with this, but I'm 6ft 2 or so. I could sit up as tall as possible and it would hit me just below the visor, but that's not the way I ride.
I'm not a fan of the small back rest on the seat either. It needs to move back or be gone so I can move around a little more. I see that it is adjustable, but haven't tried taking the bolts out yet to see if it can go any farther back or not yet.
Otherwise, it seems pretty comfy. Not a couch on wheels, but not bad. I actually have more leg room to stretch and move on my smaller scooters, but that's because of adding foot pegs. I can't change positions a lot to stay comfortable because of the raised center of the floorboard, but it's alright. Again if I can change that seat back rest, I think it will help there.
I have no problem at all flat footing the scoot, though some say it's a tall seat height (IIRC 31"). I guess that's not a big surprise at my height, but some of my 50s actually sit higher than the TMAX.
The brakes feel very nice. Leaps and bounds beyond the small scoots, plus adjustable levers.
I've been writing so long that I'm getting tired, so I'm sure I've left out something I wanted to mention. For now though, the back rest and mainly the windshield need to change and otherwise I'm quite happy with the TMAX.
Now for some pics.
You can see one other thing I'd like to fix sometime in the above pics; the rim tape. Whoever did it, didn't do a good job. It's all kinds of squiggly. Not sure how much better I can do, but I think I'll try at some point.
This pic sucks, but you can see that it is a hoss sitting beside the 150. I'll try to get better pics one day of it with the 150 and the TaoTao just for comparison's sake.
It's got 10,661 miles on it now and the owner's manual calls for nearly everything to be inspected at 12,000 miles. I really want to just leave this thing together and ride it. Let it be the scoot that's always ready, while my smaller scooters may or may not be in some level of disrepair. I guess I'll have to get my hands dirty on it before too long though. That said, I've looked into performance a little. It's all very expensive though and cost prohibitive to me, at least compared to 50s. Not saying it won't happen, but probably not real soon. Expect this to be a thread with updates, but not a performance project like most of my scooters.
Sorry to ramble for so long.
