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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 15:43:40 GMT -5
Ever heard of covering yur ass? YUP i used to do it all day long in the IT world, its called backup LOL I know he was giving me a "doomsday" scenario, i was just looking for the feedback, brent made a point that all this has to be decided by me ultimately , but i would rely on people who have some sort of knowledge as a way to decide if my trip is realistic at all. As for the adventure part im fully capable of getting on scoot and heading out, and if it breaks down and i dont want to tow it ill write ABANDONED on the seat with a yellow sticker and catch a ride to the nearest airport and go home, buy another one sometime and try again (note this is only for CATASTROPHIC failures) and an extreme case only, On the whole i think this trip may be an inspiration to those who own or want to own scoots, and it will be incredibly fun for me, especially now that i have added a night at harrahs in atlantic city and a night on the beach in miami beach Those two additions to my stops are already making me itch to leave! |
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Post by Reign on Aug 16, 2011 15:59:01 GMT -5
Honestly, I was under the impression that the 150 you were thinking of getting (Sharky) was liquid cooled. Being air cooled, I don't think I'd take that trip on it. If you're planning to do 50mph+ on an air cooled scooter all day long for 5+ days, that thing is gonna die at least by the end of the trip, if not on the second or third day.
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 16:00:22 GMT -5
Honestly, I was under the impression that the 150 you were thinking of getting (Sharky) was liquid cooled. Being air cooled, I don't think I'd take that trip on it. If you're planning to do 50mph+ on an air cooled scooter all day long for 5+ days, that thing is gonna die at least by the end of the trip, if not on the second or third day. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: |
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 16:41:22 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this alot, here is what i have come to understand so far.
With the 150cc it is doable (or it isnt depending on who you ask) but their will be problems with overheating breakdown, belt issues, cvt issues, spark plug electrical issues, the speed at which i can go and travel daily must beseverely limited, leaving off highway travel and entering into an entire whole world of stop and go city traffic with some country travel interspersed between
With a 250cc i would have a faster ride, much more suited for travel long distances (at a higher cost to own, and a higher fuel cost as mpg wouldnt be nearly as optimal as the 150cc) highways would be attainable with no safety issues, but there is a risk of overheating (even though this is a water cooled engine) people suggest it would overheat, i could probably shorten the trip with a 250cc and carry more luggage with lesso f a chance of a breakdown, but why shorten this trip at all?
The main issues come down to the fact that as brent from 49ccscoot put it, these bikes should be fully capable of travelling 2-300 miles in a stretch, if they arent what kind of junk is it we are buying if they can only be used for 3-5 mile rides around town, yes they will have issues, every engine will have issues, the 250cc is alien to me, the 150cc is a fairly comfortable engine when doing repairs as i alreadyh ave owned one, the 250cc seems more like a car then a scoot
Lots to think about and as always input is valued this trip wont be nearly as hard in reality no matter which way i decide to go as it is in theory planning and estimating.
thanks again to all of you for your help and thoughts and advice
FYI: I am not sure the bet would even be valued if a 250cc enters the game!
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 16, 2011 17:05:02 GMT -5
Thoughts on reliability/heat with the AC engines... Maybe I'm weird, but I didn't know 50-150cc scoots were for anything but WOT all the time?  I've straight up abused some air cooled Chinese engines. In stock form, a lot of these Chinese 4Ts are way tougher than they get credit for IMO. The air cooled 2Ts you have to be more careful with thanks to the lack of a dedicated lubrication system and the fact that they are making a lot of heat in comparison (double the combustion events in the same amount of time, yet a very similar air cooling method). I still love my 2Ts, but that's beside the point. I started out with midbikes. Since most folks aren't familiar with them there are pics below and they were 49cc-114cc (can go bigger, that's just my experience) air cooled Chinese engines. These were manufactured by some of the same places that make Chinese scooters. Same idea as most scooter engines too... a copy or rough copy of an engine design by a major manufacturer. Same types of materials and fasteners used. In fact, they have used or use the same engine style in some mopeds.    The engine you see in the cateye, 2nd pic, is an 88cc. It is an aftermarket kit, but it's made in China too and it's got higher compression to create even more heat. It has been in 3 different midbikes and the kart shown. It has been abused in every way you can imagine. Ridden on the street plenty, parking lot racing, burnouts, you name it. I've done all of that in some rough summer heat too. With all of that abuse, no internal engine problems not caused by user error (a friend used to own the motor and installed the cam wrong at one point and the bolt came loose, lodged between the cam chain and head, and seized the engine). As you can see, myself and friends owned a few of them and rode together. They all stayed at my house in the garage so I knew of any issues and fixed or helped to fix them. They were all incredibly reliable engines. All troubles tended to be from stupid mod ideas or improper tuning. I rode my friend's GY6 150 1000 miles in just a couple of weeks. It had no issues cruising WOT for long periods of time. I used to ride my SunL, which I think is about as crappy as Chinese scoots come, as a 72cc and 80cc for 50-100 mile trips on a very regular basis, always lots of WOT. The only time I ever had issues with overheating was when I tried to push the compression beyond reasonable limits. I killed that one in 2000 miles on one of it's builds, but I was doing something that I knew was pushing it specifically to see how long it took to kill it. WOT on a stock scoot that's in a decent state of tune really wouldn't worry me. 5 minutes of WOT on some of my 2Ts will see more heat than a stock 150 would at any point WOT all day I'd think. It's only gonna get so hot. When's the last time you heard of someone soft seizing a stock GY6 150? lol Again, modding is a different case altogether, but the reliability I've seen in a lot of small 4T Chinese engines makes me think that a properly tuned, adjusted, and maintained 150 should be fine as far as engine internals. Shit happens that you can never expect or plan for, so you never really know, but from experience they are pretty tough engines. It's the ignitions, electrical, belts, and things like that which I think are more likely to give you problems. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 16, 2011 17:14:01 GMT -5
With a 250cc i would have a faster ride, much more suited for travel long distances (at a higher cost to own, and a higher fuel cost as mpg wouldnt be nearly as optimal as the 150cc) highways would be attainable with no safety issues, but there is a risk of overheating (even though this is a water cooled engine) people suggest it would overheat, i could probably shorten the trip with a 250cc and carry more luggage with lesso f a chance of a breakdown, but why shorten this trip at all? Not all 250s have overheating problems. I believe it is a problem with some models. There are at least 2 different 250cc class engine platforms. I'm not even sure all of one platform has heating issues. I think some models had poorly designed cooling systems and airflow issues. You can take a perfectly good liquid cooling system and it won't work with a damn if you don't pass air through the radiator. |
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 17:36:42 GMT -5
well said brent, and to sum it all up lol i still dont know what 2t and 4t stand for lol?  ? As for the 150 failing i have NO DOUBT in my mind it will make it, what will happen to it on the trip is another story, hell if we need to dig out the demons lets talk about my 92 pontiac grand am se with the dreaded 2.4 L4 in it, they were known for having bad head gaskets and weak heator cores, i took TWO trips from south dakota to maine (39 hours or 1600 miles one way) and during those two trips one saw a failed belt tensioner (stranded in waterloo new york for the weekend) and one saw a failed alternator on the mass pike (again stranded in Mass while they did repairs and towed off the masspike) Also too kthat little car to gettysburg PA to see a gurl, i drove it all through the night from maine, the heator core WAS GOING in it, so i constantly had to stop every 30 minutes and dump antifreeze and water in the radiator, and had a fog coming out of my vents that smelled like syrup I got down there to find out the gurl wanted nothing to do withm e, so i slept with her friend and stayed at a hotel and the next day went back to maine, That 92 grand am was bought for 125.00 i put brakes on it and that was it, i finally lost the coil after 7 trips to and from maine - south dakota, replaced the coil pack and she ran like new again, then i borught her back to SD and was still using water to cool her in the summer (cheaper since she pissed antifreeze) we had a night where the temp dropped fast in the fall and the next day the block cracked, she sat until i imagine the city towed her to a yard as abandoned (she was parked on the street outside my house) and i dont know for sure as i left the keys in her a week after she cracked and bought a brand new fully loaded pontiac bonneville (2002 if i recall) SSE and left shortly after for baltimore on a move for my job So you see that car went all hours of the night, broke down and didnt and still she survived better then most of the cars i have owned since, So i fully agree with you brent every time i get on the UM powermaxx 150 i have now i take her to WOT and leave her there, and she doesnt even have those damn shrouds on LOL Here is a pic of my 92 grand am (date unknown) some engines last some dont RANT OVER  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 16, 2011 17:49:00 GMT -5
well said brent, and to sum it all up lol i still dont know what 2t and 4t stand for lol? ? It stands for 2 Takt and 4 Takt. Takt roughly being German for cycle. So it's just an easy way to type two-stroke or four-stroke basically. You'll see it used on lots of oils, especially 2T oils. Nice story btw.  |
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Post by stepthrutuner on Aug 16, 2011 19:20:22 GMT -5
Understanding that you will be hurting for space here's my input as to what I'd probably do:
1. Limit sockets to between 6 and 14mm, even sizes only unless you need a larger one for the pulleys. Further limit the number taken by restricting sizes 6-12mm to 1/4" drive sockets and any size larger to 3/8 drive sockets. A sock or Crown Royal bag make good "crammable" containers for tools. You don't have room for cases.
2. I've never had the need for a hammer on my adventures. Use the 10" locking pliers for a hammer.
3. Only take 1 or 2 pair of reusable heavy nitrile gloves.
4. The electrical connectors can be stowed in a prescription pill bottle or your little case.
5. In addition to the zip ties consider taking a couple of feet of bare copper 14 ga. wire for heat resistant emergency fastening.
6. Look for "hidden" stowage areas for items (spare parts) that may not be needed. I.e., around battery or behind spark plug access panel below front of seat. They can be zip tied for security.
7. If the scooter is not equipped with one install a cigarette lighter 12v. power point connected directly to the battery with perhaps a 10A. or smaller fuse if the kit does not already have one. This for your cell phone and air compressor, of course.
8. Please forgive me if I have called for something you've already done and posted about that I may have missed.
9. Take a tube of hand cleaner and three or four shop rags.
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 19:26:45 GMT -5
8. Please forgive me if I have called for something you've already done and posted about that I may have missed. Ah yes well this thread is now 7 pages deep (something i have NEVER done on a forum to be truthful) and i can see how some things can get said more then once, brent covered the tools VERY in depth in one of hos stickys about ap roper tool kit, my entire kit fits in a little bag under my seat in the belly, i like your ideas, but i think they border on the "survivalist" approach, its true space will be an issue, but regardlesso f what i finally decide on driving i will have room for about 150 pounds of gear, properly distributed that should provide enough Oh yes if a cig socket isnt included i will make sure to rig one up thats an absolute neccessity and the compressor and the impact wrench are converted to hook directly to the battery but a cig lighter can also be helful i would probably fab it (this is something i CAN DO WELL) into the inside of the glovebox area Its ok to repeat stuff, it helps me remember lol |
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 19:57:20 GMT -5
WOW the folks at www.advrider.com tell a VERY DIFFERENT story about 150cc chinese scoots |
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 20:13:51 GMT -5
wow after searching lol i guess making a homemade sensor for the engine temp was not as easy as i thought, doesnt seem to be anyone out there that attempted or had that idea
Brent are you going to save the day on this one with a neat groundbreaking idea?
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 16, 2011 20:18:03 GMT -5
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Post by gy6luver on Aug 16, 2011 20:18:05 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 16, 2011 20:20:45 GMT -5
Yeah, you can get cylinder head temp gauges that use a thermocouple washer that goes under the spark plug. The Trail tech isn't the only one, although they are really cool gauges.
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