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Post by lunatuck on May 25, 2020 15:13:27 GMT -5
OK... Technically this is my wife’s scooter. I was going to get a Yamaha Zuma, but she wanted something a little more stylish. Lol.  Enter Genuine Buddy. The compromise was that it was a two stroke, and based on the Zuma platform. So we picked it up new at Philadelphia Scooters. Stock deregulated it went about 37mph. I knew from past experience that it would need to be modified. We have lots of hills around and the main road to get to and from town is a 35mph uphill where everyone drives 50mph+. Since it’s her scoot, it has to maintain reliability. When we brought it home, I noticed that it was slightly slower then my modified Tao Tao. Time to change that. I decided to start with a Malossi 70cc sport cylinder. I got that installed and did a very gentle first 30mi. Now, it goes about 42mph(GPS). I should also note that all of my speed ratings will be very conservative. I don’t have any flat areas to test, so I settle for a slight uphill 2.5 degree grade to do all of my timed tuning. I started with an 85 main jet. It was a huge improvement both in top end and acceleration. But, after a plug chop, I went up to a 90. Then, after a timed test, I went back down to an 88. 85 may be the right size, but I want a rich break in. Reliability is a must. Next step will be rollers, but I may wait for a new variator. I’m doing a sharpie test and will report back my results. Meanwhile, we took the scoots out today for a nice 30mi ride. Perfect for break in after the first gentle 30mi. |
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Post by Zino on May 25, 2020 15:49:30 GMT -5
Nice to see your build get started .
Its always good to keep the wife happy with her own scoot.
That way when you go crazy building yours up she will be happy for ya.
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Post by mrchilled85 on May 25, 2020 15:56:37 GMT -5
nice looking bike for the wife mate i wish mine would be up for getting a bike  |
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Post by lunatuck on May 25, 2020 18:43:36 GMT -5
After our ride, I took the Buddy out for a short ride. To get a feel for it all over again after riding the Tao Tao(My cheap scooter). Lol. So, There is a short pause about 1/4-1/2 throttle. It almost feels like a rich pause. I don't know if this is from the main jet being slightly rich, or from the pilot/needle, but neither of them have been changed from stock. I seem to remember doing this with my Tao Tao after installing the BBK. It was as if the BBK required a smaller pilot jet then stock. Since that didn't sound right, I planned on checking the needle, but I couldn't get the darn thing open. I did notice the O ring between the carb and intake spacer was broken. I happened to have a few O rings in my toolbox, so I was able to get one to work, but it's a bit too small and falls out anytime I take the carb off. So I ordered 50 from McMaster Carr, and they will hopefully be the right size. Calipers don't like to measure O-rings. Lol. After it shows up I'll pull the carb again and try and figure out how to open up the top. I already know I don't like this carb. My Tao Tao carb is just a lot easier to maneuver. It seems like this one just wants to spill gas, and not be adjustable or friendly. Plus I don't get the spacer. It's nice it bolts on, but it's also a bit of a pita.
I'm also trying to order an exhaust, but the Yasuni's are all out of stock. Don't know whether to go with my 2nd choice or not. I'm a little concerned about the mounting bracket. I heard it takes some fiddling, and I fiddled with it a lot already. Couldn't get the bolt off it and broke all my socket wrenches before I got the BBK installed.
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Post by lunatuck on May 25, 2020 18:56:56 GMT -5
Also... Results of the sharpie test show some variator travel to be gained...  I may get a new variator. I think the pitch of this one isn’t optimal. Maybe some top end gains to be had. |
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Post by Zino on May 25, 2020 21:24:57 GMT -5
You got 2-4 mph right there on the variator to capture .
Ideally under 3mm is good Under 2mm is awesome .
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Post by lunatuck on May 26, 2020 12:59:16 GMT -5
Today, I took the variator off and put both 1g larger and 1g smaller rollers in. There was no discernible difference in belt travel, but there was a difference in both top end and acceleration. As expected, the lighter weights cost me top end, and the heavier weights cost me some acceleration. I didn't check to see if the heavier weights actually improved my top end with GPS, at that point, I was only looking for travel. So I'm thinking that a few things could be going on. Possibilities -I need a lighter contra spring. -The variator just doesn't have enough inward travel to give me full coverage. -The variator and drive face just don't have enough inward travel.
-The same could be true for the clutch. -The belt may not be wide enough
The overall diameter of the variator face is 93.5mm. The amount I'm using is 88mm. I think I remember reading that the NCY only has approximately 88mm of useable face. So maybe this variator is oversized, and it's supposed to be that way.
My test rollers had about .5mm more diameter. I expected this to push it out slightly itself, but it didn't.
Gotta do some chin scratching.
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Post by Zino on May 26, 2020 17:17:39 GMT -5
Take the shim out that is next to the drive boss and test to see if You get better travel .
If it Improves measure the current shim and get a smaller size .
They cost like 5 Bucks extra on your next parts order.
How much room in mm do you have when it is at rest on the back pulley ?
If you have equal or larger amount in mm on the rear pulley you may be able to go up a size in belts because of the bigger NCY pulley.
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Post by lunatuck on May 26, 2020 18:51:57 GMT -5
Take the shim out that is next to the drive boss and test to see if You get better travel . If it Improves measure the current shim and get a smaller size . They cost like 5 Bucks extra on your next parts order. How much room in mm do you have when it is at rest on the back pulley ? If you have equal or larger amount in mm on the rear pulley you may be able to go up a size in belts because of the bigger NCY pulley. There is no shim next to the boss. There is a shim on the outside just under the nut that holds the variator on.
I can't quite tell how much room I have on the back pulley, but I had thought about a larger belt. The 2.5mm where it isn't traveling seems to be close to spec, so it may just be the way it is, so I'm not sure.
I also tried to move the needle clip to take care of a hesitation at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. It turns out there is no needle clip. Apparently this is an Keihin designed OEM carb and they removed the fuel mix screw and the needle clip. I have a felling a new carb and intake is in my future.
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Post by aeroxbud on May 26, 2020 19:58:07 GMT -5
Take the shim out that is next to the drive boss and test to see if You get better travel . If it Improves measure the current shim and get a smaller size . They cost like 5 Bucks extra on your next parts order. How much room in mm do you have when it is at rest on the back pulley ? If you have equal or larger amount in mm on the rear pulley you may be able to go up a size in belts because of the bigger NCY pulley. There is no shim next to the boss. There is a shim on the outside just under the nut that holds the variator on.
I can't quite tell how much room I have on the back pulley, but I had thought about a larger belt. The 2.5mm where it isn't traveling seems to be close to spec, so it may just be the way it is, so I'm not sure.
I also tried to move the needle clip to take care of a hesitation at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. It turns out there is no needle clip. Apparently this is an Keihin designed OEM carb and they removed the fuel mix screw and the needle clip. I have a felling a new carb and intake is in my future.
The new parts list is adding up. 😉 If you are going to get a BBK soon. It might pay to wait until it's fitted. Then tune the CVT for it. It's a nice looking bike. |
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Post by lunatuck on May 26, 2020 20:19:52 GMT -5
There is no shim next to the boss. There is a shim on the outside just under the nut that holds the variator on.
I can't quite tell how much room I have on the back pulley, but I had thought about a larger belt. The 2.5mm where it isn't traveling seems to be close to spec, so it may just be the way it is, so I'm not sure.
I also tried to move the needle clip to take care of a hesitation at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. It turns out there is no needle clip. Apparently this is an Keihin designed OEM carb and they removed the fuel mix screw and the needle clip. I have a felling a new carb and intake is in my future.
The new parts list is adding up. 😉 If you are going to get a BBK soon. It might pay to wait until it's fitted. Then tune the CVT for it. It's a nice looking bike. BBK is already installed. It’s the airbox/exhaust that’ll really change it. At the moment, I figure any work I do will only educate me on the nuances of the Buddy. Unfortunately some of the nuances are manufacturer intended limitations. |
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Post by lunatuck on May 26, 2020 20:22:40 GMT -5
I’m thinking that lacking a needle, I’ll have to either up the pilot or down the main to 85. It was performing a little better at 85, I just upped it for safety sake. Now that I have 100mi on the BBK, I feel like I can go down a bit.
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Post by lunatuck on May 27, 2020 17:32:15 GMT -5
Back to 85 main jet. The blip from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle is gone. A touch more pep.
Exhaust on order, so I’ll get to do it all over again soon. Lol.
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Post by lunatuck on Jun 3, 2020 19:03:12 GMT -5
Last week I did some roller weight tuning...
My notes are...
8.5g rollers - No discernible travel difference, loss of acceleration.
7.5g(stock) rollers - Baseline for travel(2.5mm left), good acceleration, 45mph indicated (42-43GPS)
6.5g rollers - Travel indiscernible from 7.5g, good acceleration, 46mph indicated (43-44GPS)
6g rollers - Travel slightly less then 6.5g(2.6mm), good acceleration, 46mph indicated, (43-44GPS)
5g rollers - Travel not good(8mm left), great acceleration, 41mph indicated, (no GPS needed)
Decided to go with 6.5g rollers in anticipation of my new Yasuni R exhaust.
I installed the exhaust today. I removed the restrictions on it and got it installed. Had to elongate some mounting holes on the bracket to make it fit. I immediately upjetted to a 94 and on my first test ride, it didn’t move. Couldn’t break 4000RPM. Lowered the jet to 90... same thing. Lowered it to 88 and was able to slowly get rolling and thrn when it hit about 6000RPM, it took off.
I’m certain I need higher RPM clutch springs, so I ordered a set of yellow and red. Should be here this weekend or early next week.
Since I’m unsure of the jetting, I only did a quick run. The scooter easily hit 55MPH indicated and that was only halfway through my typical test route. I’m pretty sure it’s a 50MPH scooter now, but have to fix the acceleration. If I’m on an incline, it won’t even start rolling. Also, when it hits 6000RPM, it takes off almost too quickly. It needs some tlc before wifey can ride it. Lol.
Will keep this thread updated.
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Post by Zino on Jun 3, 2020 20:22:09 GMT -5
The Yasuni R is a fun pipe it has that wide band but still has the hit your looking for .
Most medium springs in the clutch will work with that pipe Unless you really want it to launch higher in the power band .
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