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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 2, 2020 7:13:42 GMT -5
Hello all! As my Taotao is down waiting for a new head, ive been considering very bad ideas. Or good, depending on how you look at it. Ive considered supercharging it. This will be a build thread of the progress i make, and the gains the supercharger gives. Ill do some baseline performance numbers when the head and exhaust are on, then the same after its boosted. Heres my basic plan for the time being:
-Amr300 supercharger (small, compact, i feel the Amr500 is overkill) mounted to the underside of the frame on the right side
-deleting the cooling fan on the right side. I know its bad, but it wouldnt be a daily bike, and a guy i follow on YT and such has ran the hell out of his 150 with no cooling shroud at all for around a year or two with no issues. Also will put some little electric fans in to cool the motor some
-tapping and threading the inside of the crankshaft output on the flywheel side so i can thread a bolt into it directly, leaving the stock flywheel and nut intact
-bolting a bottom pulley directly to the crank/flywheel via the threaded crankshaft hole
-run a belt, maybe tensioner depending on how much the belt loosens when i sit on it
-use my 28mm pwk to create a draw through carb setup (not dealing with the nightmare of blow through)
-most likely going to use a rubber hose to connect the supercharger output to the stock NCY intake manifold
-dont think ill need a bov with a draw through system, but we'll see
Thats basically it! Only part im iffy about is tapping the end of the crankshaft, but i dont think itd swell or anything. Lemme know what you all think! Should have some diagrams drawn up soon
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Post by aeroxbud on Oct 2, 2020 9:41:35 GMT -5
Would be interesting to see how much power is gained. But also how much is lost to spinning the super charger.
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 2, 2020 11:12:53 GMT -5
-Amr300 supercharger (small, compact, i feel the Amr500 is overkill) Small is a relative term. Positive displacement blowers are usually rated by volume moved per revolution. I'm guessing this is 300cc per revolution. With a real quick search I see that it is listed for 500cc to 1500cc engines, 3-10 times the size of yours basically. I also saw a site listing the AMR300 for 25HP engines (base HP, not boosted), which is well more than anything shy of the big bucks 232cc GY6 builds. I guess you could just underdrive the blower a lot. It's probably still going to eat up a lot of power to drive the big blower though. Not sure how much of an issue that will be. -deleting the cooling fan on the right side. I know its bad, but it wouldnt be a daily bike, and a guy i follow on YT and such has ran the hell out of his 150 with no cooling shroud at all for around a year or two with no issues. I can't help but wonder if this person monitors CHT and oil temp. Plus, there's going to be a big difference in a 150 vs blown 150 if it works out well. -tapping and threading the inside of the crankshaft output on the flywheel side so i can thread a bolt into it directly, leaving the stock flywheel and nut intact -bolting a bottom pulley directly to the crank/flywheel via the threaded crankshaft hole ... Only part im iffy about is tapping the end of the crankshaft, but i dont think itd swell or anything. Am I understanding this correctly? You are talking about drilling into the end of the crank itself and then tapping it so a bolt threads into the end of the crank? If so, consider the wall thickness left on the crank. I don't have a GY6 here, but IIRC they commonly used a 12mm nut on the flywheel side. Don't recall the pitch, but probably a minor diameter around 10.5mm. Doesn't leave a lot of room for a bolt capable of holding a pulley that I assume will see a lot of stress trying to drive a big blower plus the flywheel nut. If not already in your plans, maybe try to figure out something to lock the pulley on so it can't rotate and relieve that stress. That or consider other designs. If you look at my project trying to convert my scoot (T2) to a belt driven water pump, you may get some ideas. It's in the T2 build thread and I put videos of the whole process on YouTube as well. I made a nut to replace the flywheel nut. So far so good, but my water pump should not put nearly the stress on it as a blower could. There was also an idea to make a plate to bolt to the flywheel. Mine's LC though, so no loss there. I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could come up with something that allowed the use of the fan and the shroud. If it sticks out too far, then my concern is adding stress because you're putting a force farther outward on the crank. I'd love to see it. Just tossing some things out there.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 2, 2020 14:57:40 GMT -5
-Amr300 supercharger (small, compact, i feel the Amr500 is overkill) Small is a relative term. Positive displacement blowers are usually rated by volume moved per revolution. I'm guessing this is 300cc per revolution. With a real quick search I see that it is listed for 500cc to 1500cc engines, 3-10 times the size of yours basically. I also saw a site listing the AMR300 for 25HP engines (base HP, not boosted), which is well more than anything shy of the big bucks 232cc GY6 builds. I guess you could just underdrive the blower a lot. It's probably still going to eat up a lot of power to drive the big blower though. Not sure how much of an issue that will be. -deleting the cooling fan on the right side. I know its bad, but it wouldnt be a daily bike, and a guy i follow on YT and such has ran the hell out of his 150 with no cooling shroud at all for around a year or two with no issues. I can't help but wonder if this person monitors CHT and oil temp. Plus, there's going to be a big difference in a 150 vs blown 150 if it works out well. -tapping and threading the inside of the crankshaft output on the flywheel side so i can thread a bolt into it directly, leaving the stock flywheel and nut intact -bolting a bottom pulley directly to the crank/flywheel via the threaded crankshaft hole ... Only part im iffy about is tapping the end of the crankshaft, but i dont think itd swell or anything. Am I understanding this correctly? You are talking about drilling into the end of the crank itself and then tapping it so a bolt threads into the end of the crank? If so, consider the wall thickness left on the crank. I don't have a GY6 here, but IIRC they commonly used a 12mm nut on the flywheel side. Don't recall the pitch, but probably a minor diameter around 10.5mm. Doesn't leave a lot of room for a bolt capable of holding a pulley that I assume will see a lot of stress trying to drive a big blower plus the flywheel nut. If not already in your plans, maybe try to figure out something to lock the pulley on so it can't rotate and relieve that stress. That or consider other designs. If you look at my project trying to convert my scoot (T2) to a belt driven water pump, you may get some ideas. It's in the T2 build thread and I put videos of the whole process on YouTube as well. I made a nut to replace the flywheel nut. So far so good, but my water pump should not put nearly the stress on it as a blower could. There was also an idea to make a plate to bolt to the flywheel. Mine's LC though, so no loss there. I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could come up with something that allowed the use of the fan and the shroud. If it sticks out too far, then my concern is adding stress because you're putting a force farther outward on the crank. I'd love to see it. Just tossing some things out there. Thats what i was thinking. The thing is, i dont have a lathe to make a custom attachment or anything. So whatever i do has to be simple. I was actually thinking about watching your build to see again how you handled the pulley. Im drawing up some plans now. Im guessing underdrive means small pulley on the supercharger and big one on the crank?
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jayrod427
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 114
Location: Kansas
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Post by jayrod427 on Oct 2, 2020 15:18:20 GMT -5
Thats what i was thinking. The thing is, i dont have a lathe to make a custom attachment or anything. So whatever i do has to be simple. I was actually thinking about watching your build to see again how you handled the pulley. Im drawing up some plans now. Im guessing underdrive means small pulley on the supercharger and big one on the crank? Opposite. Small crank pulley, big blower pulley.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 2, 2020 16:11:38 GMT -5
Thats what i was thinking. The thing is, i dont have a lathe to make a custom attachment or anything. So whatever i do has to be simple. I was actually thinking about watching your build to see again how you handled the pulley. Im drawing up some plans now. Im guessing underdrive means small pulley on the supercharger and big one on the crank? Opposite. Small crank pulley, big blower pulley. Thaaaats what i thought. Give the blower more torque. Ive drawn up the mounting method and placement and everything.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 2, 2020 16:16:26 GMT -5
The whole little piece of bar will be welded to the nuts on either end. Just so i can mount the whole thing to the crankshaft as normal. Then bolt the pulley on. If i get an aftermarket fan with a hole in the center, i wont even have to delete the cooling system!
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Post by jackrides on Oct 4, 2020 15:12:20 GMT -5
Looking forward to following this! Keeping, or enlarging, the cooling fan is probably essential. If this is going to run for more than a couple minutes, monitor the head and/or the oil temp.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 5, 2020 8:16:20 GMT -5
Looking forward to following this! Keeping, or enlarging, the cooling fan is probably essential. If this is going to run for more than a couple minutes, monitor the head and/or the oil temp. Actually, the pulley is going to have to be far out, farther out than i intended, so Im gonna pick up an aftermarket fan with a hole in the middle. So I can keep the whole shroud and fan. Im still gonna get a little 50cc battery to power some external cooling fans that'll come on when im riding hard or idling for awhile. As for monitoring temp, i just cant stomach the 600 dollars for a trail tech gauge with the little spark plug ring. Anyone else have a cheap method of monitoring it? Or a good oil cooler for a GY6 150?
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 5, 2020 9:54:27 GMT -5
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Post by aeroxbud on Oct 5, 2020 10:25:32 GMT -5
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 5, 2020 10:46:02 GMT -5
That wire looks kinda short, but holy crap thanks! I guess i spent too much time on the wrong stuff 😂
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Oct 5, 2020 10:51:21 GMT -5
I actually just got done reading that article. Ive always wanted to put in an oil cooler just even as is cause i beat the brakes off this poor 150 every time i ride. I gotta say, its about 10 times easier than i thought itd be to install. Theres a pretty open spot on the front bottom rail of the frame where itd get plenty of airflow. Kinda worry about rocks hitting it, but eh. I messaged a crowdfunder who makes small engine chargers, but the ad is 10 years old, so i doubt ill get a response. The AMR300 is a big charger for the motor, but its easy enough to turn. Even if it only puts in what the engine takes to spin it, and im at the same power, itd still be supercharged, and thats cool enough to make it worthwhile
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Post by aeroxbud on Oct 5, 2020 11:02:31 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 5, 2020 12:15:20 GMT -5
If you look at the pics of the cooler, it's got a little shield on the front side. Not the best, but it should stop small rocks and such from hitting the fins. You could always make your own screen shield.
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