Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[pitobread]

I would try a lighter center spring and see if the speed comes up with he lighter rollers.

['O'Verse]

Video quality looked amazing. Garage looked perfect for the video. It was like watching an episode of your favorite scooters only television show! 👍👍

[Kenho21]

Sept 20, 2019 20:42:38 GMT -5 'O'Verse said:

Video quality looked amazing. Garage looked perfect for the video. It was like watching an episode of your favorite scooters only television show! 👍👍

I keep telling him he needs to charge for this stuff haha! JK... kinda

Will you videotape my wedding Brent?

[90GTVert]

I finally put new seals in the forks. You can see that it was well needed.






I went back to 8g sliders that worked pretty well and then the DrPulley HiT clutch came in.








The friction material is quite a bit smaller than my stock clutch.







Cooling or reinforcement, kinda like the Malossi wing bell.




Nothing fancy on the inside.




I was impressed that they give you 4 additional clutch spring sets and 6 additional pillow spring sets.




I did a test fit and the pulley would hit the clutch, even with the spacer that I had for my stock clutch. I tried 2 spacers, but the more spacers the less threads for the nut that holds the clutch on. Ended up making a small selection of spacers and saved a few tenths of a mm of spacing for threads.




Then the clutch hit the bell and jammed up when installed using just the spacer that Malossi provides with the OR kit. I found that plates on the face of the clutch were making contact and ground them down some. I could use only spacing to get clearance, but again the more spacing the less threads for the clutch nut.












I still couldn't get it to clear totally with just the Malossi spacer, but I added an 0.1mm shim and it seemed good. Before that grinding, I was using an extra mm or more.


I put the rear wheel in the air and checked engagement with the stock clutch before I did all of this. It looked like roughly 6,000RPM. I checked the DrPulley clutch out of the box and it was 4-5,000. I went to the stiffest clutch springs and it looks like 5-6,000RPM. I was immediately disappointed. I thought this thing would prob get to at least 7-8,000RPM.

Maybe a test ride would be totally different.

No. It sucks. It feels soft. Soft or no pillow springs are supposed to make it hit hard, so I'm gonna try that next. It also disengages about the same speed as my stock clutch when I coast down. I can't really get it to wheelie.

I got a slight interference sound when I spun the rear tire with the CVT cover off, so I may have to add a little more spacing behind the bell too.


I really hope the pillow spring change makes a huge difference. Otherwise all that the clutch has done is make me broke and wast my time.


EDIT : The other thing I'm thinking is that the clutch and pillow springs look incredibly similar. Makes me wonder if I can use the stiffer red pillow springs as clutch springs. Still gonna try pillows next though, because I just don't like the feel ATM.

[90GTVert]

The pillow springs do seem to work as clutch springs, but engagement didn't go up a lot. I found that my adapter on my primary drive shaft was touching the clutch and putting some pressure on it. That made it cut out at idle sometimes. Banged that into the bearing farther and it's fine now.

It wouldn't run clean WOT all day. Even once it cooled at night, it still sucked. I assume it's the dry air and the heat. It was 70-80 for most of my tuning and now it's 90 with less humidity. I swapped to a 105 main jet, from 108. That cleaned it up and it ran the hardest I've had it run on the top end. Got up to 63 @ 11,080 on the way home and it felt good all the way. I only let off because it was bumpy. Hopefully just the road and the scoot isn't about to fall apart. From the way it felt then, if it had the gearing for it and I tucked down some I could get some pretty good speed. No plans to change gearing though. Fat dudes can't drag race with highway gears... plus I don't know of any that support a 3rd bearing setup.

I took the pillow springs out of the clutch, but I'm going to wait till tomorrow to try it. I try not to annoy the neighbors too many times per day.

[ryan_ott]

Do you have another bell you could try for clearance? I had a clearance issue with the bell on one of the motors not sure if it was AF16 or Mina. I’m using the included clutch now and it works well. Hopefully after a few spring swaps you’ll be happy with it.

Edit: regardless of what the bag says use the heavier (thicker) spring for the main clutch spring and the lighter ones for the pillow. The red 24kg should be the one.

[90GTVert]

The clearance is good enough now. Just hoping the pillow spring removal makes it hit hard. That's really the whole reason that I bought it. They say fun stuff in their warnings about the scooter jumping into the air on takeoff and get me all excited and I'm here cussin' it like where the hell is my air. So far, my modified stock clutch is more abrupt.

[90GTVert]

I just tried it without pillow springs. Meh. It's fine. It takes off well. It just doesn't have that feeling like it wants to wheelie and I rode through the yard and it would take off but wouldn't really get the front up. This is as nasty as I can make this clutch. The stiffest clutch springs and no pillow springs.

I took a quick look at the pulleys when I popped the cover off to help it cool slightly faster and I don't see marks like now the clutch is so brutal that the belt slips or anything like that. I'll take a better look in a few when the mod-stock clutch goes back in. I want to ride with both pretty much back to back so there's no question. I'll have runs on video to compare that way. Don't think I should just compare the old runs to whatever it has done since the main jet swap because it runs cleaner now.

[90GTVert]

It seems like it gets RPM up more with the DrPulley for the whole acceleration run. It feels like the stock clutch hits harder when it grabs. Right now, neither is gonna get the wheel up much because it has decided to start lagging when I get on the gas. The stock clutch does do a better job of that though.

I think it probably would like a leaner needle. That's what I've thought since early on, but I've been trying to avoid that if it would go well with what it has. It's not getting hot part throttle right now at least.

I found a gearbox seal leaking (primary drive shaft) when I did the clutch swap so that will need to be fixed.

I'm gettng burned out of tuning. I never enjoy tuning. To me it's the chore of the entire process. Tomorrow the temp is supposed to drop around 10 degrees again and be more similar to what they have forecasted for the weekend. I think I'm gonna take a break from it and get back to it then. Don't want to eat up too much time with the car show this weekend, but when it goes back and forth so much I feel like I'm chasing my tail and get frustrated with the whole deal... plus the $200 clutch that won't shoot me off into the air like a rocket as it suggests.

[90GTVert]

I say that... and now I've been in the house all of 10 minutes and I think I need to go fix the gearbox seal at least.

EDIT : Seal replaced.

[90GTVert]

Alright, so I checked the 0-30-40-50 times and RPM at each while accelerating of the HiT vs the mod-stock. What I didn't expect is that the RPM is higher with the HiT all the way through. Maybe a function of the torque spring's compression or movement with the HiT. I'd figure the clutch should be done whatever it's gonna do by 30MPH. That or it sucks and it always slips? I don't see the evidence of heat in the clutch or bell that it should have if slipping a lot though.

Clutch	0-30MPH	RPM @ 30	0-40MPH	RPM @ 40	0-50MPH	RPM @ 50
Dr Pulley HiT 24kg Clutch / No Pillow	4.7sec	10,400	7.5sec	10,500	12.3sec	10,700
Lightened Stock 1,000RPM? Springs	4.7sec	10,000	7.3sec	10,200	11.7sec	10,500

With test runs within an hour of each other and done back to back in opposite directions and then averaged (RPM also averaged, although it was essentially the same each time)... can anyone tell me why I've heard for years that aftermarket clutches are a game changer and why I just spent $200 for this? Well, I can explain the latter. It's because of the former. Also, it seems that the modified stock clutch is more likely to do the best power wheelies. Possibly also to note; I have not played with the stock clutch beyond where it was setup for the 103. I don't think I'll make much of a change with it though if I do try to swap springs though TBH. If the reason for getting the DrPulley is that RPM is higher... lighter weights should cover that. I feel like a 300lb rider is a good test too, because if grip were a claim then someone as heavy as me should test that and I'm not seeing the advantage. I can't see marks on my pulleys from the belt slipping.

What is it that everyone else gets that I don't? Anyone else happen to have timed runs showing their gains and did you guys lighten and balance your stock clutch shoes? Did I buy the wrong clutch?

Also, to give the HiT the benefit of the doubt, I would guess that it should match the stock clutch after 30MPH if it were at the same RPM. Maybe it wouldn't keep up off the line though with heavier sliders to change late RPM? Right now, I'd call it even at best... but then it still irritates me that with all this talk of wheelies... I do better with mod-stock.

Here's a quote from their instructions PDF so you get an idea of what I'm talking about with their claims :

"It’s dangerous to actuate the throttle fully and suddenly when softer pillow spring and harder clutch spring are used at the same time, as the vehicle might jump into the air abruptly to cause serious damage or injury."

[pitobread]

New clutch, first thing I like to do is bed the shoes to the clutch bell. Put some sandpaper on the inside of the clutch bell with some glue or adhesive, then start the bike and let the shoes make contact on the centerstand. Ride the brake a tad. Do this till the contact patch is acceptable. Go easy, hard to put that stuff back on.

Then clean your bell out with brakeclean.

You would be shocked how many clutches only ride on the outer edge of the shoe till they get worn in.

My RC-ONE engages at like 6k. It's fine. I was however shocked at how soft the center spring was. Noticeably soft. This also probably plays into the fact it uses 4-5g weights. I suspect you are still shifting too soon. As you said it started to hit with the way lighter rollers but top speed decreased. The other thing about the lighter rollers is how fast it downshifts, which the center spring also plays a part in, but if its lazy to get back to low you dont get that wheelie hit from a roll.

I don't know if that extra crank inertia plays into the loss of hit but it very well might as well.

Just food for thought.

[ryan_ott]

I feel there is still work to do with the clutch... it could be it had less mass then your heavy stock clutch. Maybe you need a higher stall speed for that combo, you can mount non HiT springs to it. Don’t give up on it... and your $200 yet 🤭

[oldgeek]

I like my HIT clutch, but it did take some serious tuning to get it right.

I feel like heavy guys are at such a disadvantage when it comes to the clutch and the whole CVT in general. I feel like I could get the average weight guy to rocket launch status fairly easy. But my 320lb's is another story, it a totally different ball game. Those of you that doubt weight makes a huge difference, I challenge you to add a 100lb - 150lb sack of sand to your scoot floorboard and let me know how it goes for you.

One thing I did with my HIT clutch is very heavy pillow springs. I know it does not make sense, but it works for me.

IIRC you got the clutch that engages "at a higher RPM" 60° pillow blocks. I think the one that engages at "a normal RPM" is 40° pillow blocks. It may be better suited for big guys.

[ryan_ott]

My last and this one are both the 50deg version, not sure what difference it would make.