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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 23, 2019 18:01:41 GMT -5
This clutch has 50 degree pillow springs. Same one Ryan has.
"The Dr. Pulley HiT Clutch with 50 degree pillow springs is for use on scooters with a modified cylinder requiring the clutch to engage at a higher RPM."
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Post by oldgeek on Sept 23, 2019 20:03:11 GMT -5
Ok, I had the numbers wrong and backwards.
50° pillows are for "use on scooters with a modified cylinder requiring the clutch to engage at a higher RPM"
60° pillows are for "use on four-wheel CVT vehicles or scooters with a modified cylinder requiring the clutch to engage at a normal RPM"
So it appears that the 60° pillows are for HEAVIER applications. I am not sure which clutch I have or how it is actually set up, but I like it.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 23, 2019 22:14:00 GMT -5
I finally finished checking all of the videos I have with acceleration runs in them. Had to redo some that I did earlier. I realized that I used a timer that went by frames instead of tenths and hundredths of a second for the last numbers for those. That means the numbers on pg 231 are wrong, although the result as far as what is quickest was still the same.
My quickest averaged 0-30s were 4.4 seconds. Quickest to 40, 6.7. Quickest to 50, 11.0. I even checked times between 30-40, 40-50 and 30-50 so I could be sure to get whatever I could from the data. Noted RPM at each 30-40-50MPH point for all runs.
All of the quickest times so far are with RPM noted from 10,000 to 10,900. That's from 30-50MPH notes. I can't really look when I take off in case it wants to come up and it flashes by pretty quick anyway.
The majority of quickest times are with RPM ranging from 10,200 to 10,700.
So it looks like in a perfect world I'd have it never leave 10,000-10,900RPM and more ideally stay from 10,200 to 10,700. It's never gonna be that perfect for the whole 0-top speed... but at least I kinda know what to aim for with the slider selection. That's what the info I have says anyway. I didn't do runs with the heavier sliders because they wouldn't get moving off the start well. What I've collected seems about right though.
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Post by lordverminaard on Sept 24, 2019 15:23:31 GMT -5
I felt like the clutch was holding me back on my Sundiro build as well, I ended up drilling the stock clutch and putting lighter springs in it, and it still felt like it grabbed to early and too soft. The guy that bought my scooter had the clutch self-destruct on him not more than a month after he got it, and I think he upgraded to the Doppler or something like that, says it will wheelie on him now. Oh well. I did just watch a youtube video from Rolling Wrench about the Reveno clutch, and it looks pretty sick: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UihM9vQNj1c (also bumped a thread about the Reveno with the same link today as well) I thought their prices were a little high but then I looked up a Dr. Pulley HiT and damn, they are nearly the same. www.reveno.com.tw/ Dunno if you can get your money back from that Dr. Pulley piece but I like everything I have seen about the Reveno so far. Good luck, enjoying the build video so far! Brendan |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 24, 2019 18:53:17 GMT -5
I did just watch a youtube video from Rolling Wrench about the Reveno clutch, and it looks pretty sick: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UihM9vQNj1c (also bumped a thread about the Reveno with the same link today as well) I thought their prices were a little high but then I looked up a Dr. Pulley HiT and damn, they are nearly the same. www.reveno.com.tw/ Dunno if you can get your money back from that Dr. Pulley piece but I like everything I have seen about the Reveno so far. Good luck, enjoying the build video so far! Brendan That is a neat clutch. He is selling them. The 232 with EFI and every name brand part is likely quick with about any clutch if you know how to tune it. I have no idea how you own such an engine and don't put a tach on it till you need to for the company that gave you the free clutch so you could promote it to sell. I'm not a fan of statements like "it's like a 70% improvement" with no data to back it up other than that's what it feels like. Love all of the technical details provided like how you tune the clutch. I watch stuff like that and end up irritated because I'll die broke but I'll tell you what I really think of things and I'll take the time to collect data to back it up. Let me step down off of this soap box. lol I gotta go time some runs from earlier today. |
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Post by Kenho21 on Sept 24, 2019 19:19:14 GMT -5
I did just watch a youtube video from Rolling Wrench about the Reveno clutch, and it looks pretty sick: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UihM9vQNj1c (also bumped a thread about the Reveno with the same link today as well) I thought their prices were a little high but then I looked up a Dr. Pulley HiT and damn, they are nearly the same. www.reveno.com.tw/ Dunno if you can get your money back from that Dr. Pulley piece but I like everything I have seen about the Reveno so far. Good luck, enjoying the build video so far! Brendan That is a neat clutch. He is selling them. The 232 with EFI and every name brand part is likely quick with about any clutch if you know how to tune it. I have no idea how you own such an engine and don't put a tach on it till you need to for the company that gave you the free clutch so you could promote it to sell. I'm not a fan of statements like "it's like a 70% improvement" with no data to back it up other than that's what it feels like. Love all of the technical details provided like how you tune the clutch. I watch stuff like that and end up irritated because I'll die broke but I'll tell you what I really think of things and I'll take the time to collect data to back it up. Let me step down off of this soap box. lol I gotta go time some runs from earlier today. I worked in sales for years... it always amazes me how much people believe from other people trying to sell them something. Not talking about this scenario in particular, but taking advice from anyone who stands to profit from said advice is a complete failure to exercise rational thought. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 24, 2019 19:52:17 GMT -5
I had to go grocery shopping this morning so I picked up some 3M Super 77 spray adhesive while I was out. I used that to glue strips of 80 grit sandpaper to the Dr Pulley clutch bell so I could try to bed it in as pitobread said.  Installed it and let it engage with puffs of dust many times. Didn't see any areas that weren't touched after. Does that translate to full contact when the sandpaper is gone? Not sure.  Peeled the sandpaper off and cleaned the gunk from the spray adhesive out with acetone. Then I scuffed it up with 60 grit.  I don't even know if I'll try it again before the car show. I kinda wanna wrap up any tuning tomorrow. That way I can clean it up, change the belt, change the plug, check fasteners, etc... tomorrow so it'll be ready for Friday. I tried messing with the needle today. Started out with a D22, which is the needle that came with the 25mm PHBL. Same as the D36, but the D22 has a 4mm shorter taper so it leans it out a little. I installed it in the leanest position just like the D36 was in. That didn't really get me anywhere. If anything, it got worse on part throttle response. Then I put the D36 back in, just as it was, in the leanest position. Revved it on the stand. Then I put it in the next to leanest position and revved it on the stand. Sounded a little quicker to respond. Tried that on the road. About 0.2 quicker 0-30 than where I was at on my last run yesterday. I could feel it pulling more and trying to lift on takeoff. That's more like it. I tried going a step richer on the needle. That softened it up too much. It did cool it off enough that it was way easier to ride in town because it wasn't surging toward the hit so bad. Back to the next to leanest position. Then I setup the timing light again and advanced ignition timing 3 degrees to 23 at idle. That made it feel better. That made it start to power wheelie more like it should. It took 0.1 off of the 0-30, 0.3 off of the 0-40, and 0.7 off of the 0-50. Right on par with the quickest runs I've made. RPM was low at takeoff for some reason, about 200 low at 30... but then by 40-50 it was normal. Feels like the quickest, but it was a bit windy today and that throws things off some even back to back in opposite directions. When I rode, I rolled on and off of the throttle slowly many times. I tried cruising at different speeds. Didn't detect any issue with the timing. As a bonus, I had about a gallon of 89 octane in there instead of all 91-93 as usual. When I went to a gas station I somehow hit 89 and pumped in a gallon before I realized it. So at least it made for a good test for knock anyway. Now I'm contemplating moving it up to 25 degrees base timing. That would be as far as I'd try at this point. Anything I can do to get the pipe hitting quicker off the line or on throttle blip will improve what I'm after. Not sure if I should go for it or call it good enough. I really don't like the idea of calling it good enough and don't think 25 is unreasonable for something that's well under the intended RPM of the cylinder kit. Figured I'd see what y'all think. I don't really know how I'll know when the piston is about to melt. I don't see CHT doing anything weird and it seems like I could cruise it fine. EDIT : Oh, almost forgot. The 3 CPI CDIs from dhgate came in today. I honestly thought they may just screw me over on 'em based on some reviews of that site, so I was happy to see them. Looks liek the same thing that I have on there right now. Who knows if they are actually the same, but they look like they could be NOS. That or they just put them in dirty places after they're freshly manufactured.  EDIT : EDIT : And gforcemx finally approved my return of that 52mm head 5-6 days later. |
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Post by aeroxbud on Sept 25, 2019 2:26:55 GMT -5
It's getting there with some tuning.
Glad they have taken the head back. That whole episode would of left a bad taste in my mouth, if they had refused.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 25, 2019 14:33:14 GMT -5
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Post by Delpzie on Sept 25, 2019 14:55:19 GMT -5
Im pretty sure that makes full contact.
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Post by pitobread on Sept 25, 2019 15:23:03 GMT -5
25 degrees may work, but at 12k I would be worried about melting a piston and high rpm detonation. 15 degrees at peak power tapering off is ideal for max power and reliability. 30-40ish at idle and tapering to 15 at peak is kinda ballpark for most of the performance curves for small bore stuff I have seen.
I think moving into the world of adjustable curve CDI would make a world of difference. Maybe try that programmable one? Learning curve is steep but I think worth it.
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Post by Delpzie on Sept 25, 2019 15:32:26 GMT -5
If he can get hands on CDI with adjustable curve it will change a lot , also i would reccomend u put ignition on stock timing, with these kinds of cylinders little missed ignition or carb not tuned perfect/rich mixture will seize in a blink.
Edit: Also i would reccomend really getting a better exhaust even with stock flywheel, like this on 9k rpm it just not where the kit is projected, if u would get exhaust something like top performances nardo it will run so much better like much much better.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 25, 2019 16:21:59 GMT -5
I advanced the timing 2 more degrees, for 25 base. That knocked 0.1 off of the 0-30MPH time and then followed with 0.1 off of the 40 and 50MPH times. No sign of trouble part throttle, rolling throttle, etc... Works for me.
Then I swapped on the DrPulley clutch again. It works fine, like before. 0.1 slower to 30 and no wheelies or at least barely wheelies. By 50MPH it was 0.5 slower, but RPM stays higher with it. RPM was higher with both today vs yesterday. Either the timing made an abrupt change or it's weather related or something else is up. I know Scott said that he uses stiff pillow springs and he's heavy, but I don't want to play with this thing anymore right now. Back to the modified stock clutch.
I'm gonna clean the whole CVT and replace my belt that's now 16.25mm. A new belt is 18mm. I'll try to run it to make sure it's not totally different with the new belt and as long as it's OK then I'm just cleaning, checking, etc... and getting it ready to go to the beach. I don't really see why I couldn't ride this thing to and from, but I just don't want to chance it right now and it does kinda sound like even if it doesn't melt then the miles will be limited before changing the piston and rings. Hopefully I can get through 2 car shows at least without trouble.
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Post by aeroxbud on Sept 26, 2019 2:32:27 GMT -5
All this work. You deserve to rip it up at least one show.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 26, 2019 9:13:30 GMT -5
I took a ride this morning after replacing the belt and cleaning the entire CVT. Did about 14 miles to break it in before I tried acceleration runs. It has a second of lag before it goes now. Won't come near a wheelie because of said lag. I used and 0.5mm shim with the old belt that was 16.25mm and only added another 0.5mm shim for the 1.75mm thicker replacement. I'll try shimming at least till it gets good travel on the rear pulley first and see what it does. I hate to add too much because I imagine it's gonna wear if I ride for hours and I'd like it to just sorta stay in tune. Normally I put on a new belt and then ride 70 miles to the beach and then by the time it's night and getting more rowdy, the CVT is ready to kick some ass. Unloading from a truck is a bit different.
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