Triton # 2 (T2) 49cc to 110cc & Nearly Everywhere In Between

[90GTVert]

This has not been the easy day that I was hoping for so far. I started looking at the CVT because I could use just an 0.5mm shim in my OR with the large spline crank and it worked from brand new belt to 16mm belt. This one seemed to change a lot with belt width changes.

The vari is the same part number, just as I thought. The ramp plate and drive bosses are different. The drive boss on this small crank kit is 43.17mm long. The one for the large crank is 44.93mm long. That'll do it. So I adjusted shims till I was at 45.44mm overall length of the boss and shims for this small boss, to match the other boss plus it's shim at 45.43mm.

Then I decided to take out 0.5mm of shimming after seeing how little was left of the splines for the kick start gear to grab onto. So basically the same length as the larger boss without spacers.

I put the cover on and the engine wouldn't even turn over because the kick start spring was locked against the fins on the variator fan (fixed half). The kick start gears on the crank and under the cover were also really close to each other.

I took the kick start gear off of the crank and shaved 0.5mm off of it's base. It started at 3.1mm thick and I took it to 2.6mm so it still looked robust enough to be OK.

Then I made an adapter and put the fixed half in the lathe. I shaved the fins down. Didn't measure how much. More than I figured I needed anyway.

Put it back together and everything actually worked without contact or noise.

Took it for a road test and it died 1/8 mile from home. Realized I had left the fuel off. Then it didn't want to restart. Got a cramp in my leg from kicking it. At that point I thought I fried the thing just from it running lean as the bowl drained and I hadn't even got into it hard. Luckily, it did fire up eventually. Not really sure why it was so tough. Then it quickly went back to running as usual as I cruised away.

I stopped to do acceleration runs back and forth and check the response and it still has lag. Dammit. That was a lot of work to still have a bad takeoff. I can tell the CVT likes the more free belt, but it doesn't matter much if the engine takes about a second to start going.

I think the combo is persnickety. The weather today is approaching 90 and about 60% humidity. Earlier in the week it was 80 and 40% humidity. I think that's enough to make this damn thing lag on WOT. I'm definitely glad this is an airbox and not a pod filter at least.

So I looked at the weather for tomorrow at the beach and it's supposed to be about 10-20 degrees cooler, depending on the time. One site forecasts 20% higher humidity and the other only says a few percent higher. Prob more dense air anyway. Not sure if I wanna mess with it today or just plan to change needle settings at the beach if it sucks tomorrow. I'd rather get it right now, but I don't know if it will still run right with another weather change. Sigh. And I thought I was ready to go with just cleanup and some checks and a plug swap.

[Delpzie]

For take off on these racing kits u need really good cvt and carb setup, it either rips or it doesnt move, your job is even harder cuz u are running it on 9k rpm instead of 13-14k. You should check your spark plug color on full throttle dont risk it put bigger jet and go down smaller till perfection im sure u know this i dont need to tell it just pointing out so u are safe . After your carb is perfect then move to transmission setting up.

[90GTVert]

TPR 86cc Video Part 3 : Crank Check & Case Machining. I gotta say, I enjoy watching case material disappear in fast motion. I find it oddly satisfying.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnNuT4z9uk4



I decided to stick with what I thought and leave the tune alone, especially after watching local weather when the forecaster showed a front coming through with lower dew points. So, I spent last night cleaning the wheels and polishing the radiators to get it back to make sure T2 is at peak ugliness. I changed the plug out. The pic below is of the only plug that has been in this engine till now. Also checked cylinder studs, header bolts, and so on to get it ready. Lots of trying to gather up things. I'm more nervous taking it in the truck than riding. I guess because I've always rode it to the beach.




I think you can watch the meter spin faster when I charge GoPro batteries.





I checked the weather a little while ago and realized that current conditions here are really similar to what the beach is at. Decided to warm T2 up and take it around the yard. That would be enough to tell me if it's got that horrible bog or not.

Hot damn! It's jumping the front up better than it ever has with the 86cc now. I think it really liked the additional shims on the drive boss. It's more like the 103 on a good day. I'll take it. Now I just hope it runs the same at the show as it does here. I gotta remember to try some acceleration runs to time at some point as well. Curious to see if it improved as much as it feels like. Prob not.


I wasn't sure how loading it in the truck was gonna go. Mostly because I haven't loaded a scoot alone since I before I crashed. Normally I'd push it up the ramp and then hold the scoot with one hand and hop in the truck at the same time. I'm not quite so "hoppy" since breakin the knee. I have a small jackstand that I use on the workbench though and it's just short enough that I can put the left peg on it and it will lean just enough to not fall over. I used that once I got it in the truck and it worked. I'll prob use it again to unload it so maybe I won't drop it.




Not long till I'll head out.

Look, there in the bus lane!
It's a moped!
It's a bumblebee!
No, it's T2!
Faster than a rental scooter!
More powerful than a weedwacker!
Leaps coke bottles... when it feels like it.


EDIT : I gotta get going real soon. I just checked a cam on 61st street and a group of 5 rentals was turning around as soon as I turned it on. Better get there before all of the rental shops close on such a nice day.

oceancitylive.com/ocean-city-webcams/ocean-city-traffic-cam/

[pitobread]

Godspeed fellow scooter maniac.

[90GTVert]

I got to OC and unloaded at about 4PM yesterday. The scoot still ran well there. The one issue that I discovered quickly was that it loads up idling at lights to the point that it sounds like a 2-step when I take off. After 1 lap around town, I adjusted the idle mix leaner. I think about 1/2 turn, but it may have been a full turn. I can't remember now. So then for that lap when I took off it would bog at first and then go. Before the next lap around town, I adjusted it richer again. Then it went back to breaking up after it sat. I wanted to adjust it part way back, but by then it was dark and I had a bunch of stuff with me but not a working flashlight. I'm sure I could have backed the truck up and used it's lights, but I just left it. I figured I could just rev it like a jerk whenever I actually planned to take off at a light. The good thing about that is that it issues a challenge to anyone else sitting at the light next to me. lol That worked. If I kept revving it, it would take off clean.

I surprised a few people. I took off with some stock Subaru Outback or something like that. I don't know what the newer SUVs are. Anyway, they didn't leave me and then the passenger put his head out of the window as the passed and stared like WTF is that thing. I revved it up at some guy that pulled up to a light on a sport bike. Then the crowd tells him that I just punked him or something like that. So then he has to make the cool guy move of turning his bike completely off, like I can start the bike when it turns green and still beat him. I sat there and revved it till the light turned green so it was clear that I was going and that it would be cleared out. Light turned green and I was off and halfway to the other light before he came by very fast. Obviously he would have whooped me regardless, but I don't know that he thought I'd be halfway to the next light before he caught me. A few people took off after they saw me go. I think I made a couple of people let out. Like they started to go and then thought, crap I don't actually want to have to race this thing. Prob figured it would be like the rentals that take off at a snail's pace.

Speaking of rentals, I came across one group of those twice. They were friendly and surrounded me at red lights. At first, they pulled up beside me. Then I rode outta their life for a while. Then I saw then on another lap and they'd pull ahead of me and all around me at some lights. Didn't really bother me. Kinda funny. One guy was like "I'm just gonna let it roll. Eat it up." Something like that, talking about a burnout. lol His friends had to stop him because there was a cop sitting in a parking lot just behind us. They asked me if it was fast at the first light and I said no. Might go 50.

Had a lot of "what is that?". One guy was like, "hey you got airbags". I was thinking, is this a fat guy joke about the gut or something. I was so lost. Then he said, "you keep water in there?". Realized he meant the tank. Told him it was gas, then he asked how much I wanted. "You take $2200 bro?" Reply, "I'm good." I was going through a side street because of an accident on the main strip and a small group of kids got me to stop for a second. One said he saw me "rippin' it up earlier" and they liked the scoot.

I was sitting at one light and someone said "I smell that two stroke." I revved it up and this small crowd goes nuts for a second. I laughed so hard that I think I snorted. It's a young crowd at H2O. I'm the old dude there. Actually, one guy walked up to me at a light and told me I was way too old to be at H2O. I agreed. Then he told me I should hold the front brake and the gas. I obliged him and the rest of the crowd after initially resisting. I skipped most burnout requests. Cops really had a big presence and the burnout seems more obvious in my mind to get their attention than the other stuff.

Did quite a few of my usually crappy power wheelies. Did a few in front of cops that were trying to stifle the crowds and their constant inciting of burnouts, wheelies, 2-steps, and sometimes races. Luckily they never came after the smartass on the scooter. lol I actually do respect cops, but I can't help myself.

Loaded up a little after midnight to head home. On the last lap, the clutch started feeling a bit odd. It would still wheelie and take off, but I started feeling more of a bump or something at times as it was engaging without a lot of throttle. At that point I'm there to have fun so I ain't gonna go easy on it and it took all the nonsense for another hour-ish lap of the town. I'll have to check that out to see if anything is obviously wrong.

As much as I hate to admit it, I actually liked carrying the scoot in the truck. Kind of ashamed of myself, but I may do it more. The ride home is always tough on the scoot. I've done it so many times that either I'm just old and beat up since the crash or I just don't think I have anything to prove with it. But then part of me is like don't you turn into a candy ass. lol If I ride down and around, my butt and everything else is always hurting before I even leave, plus I'm tired by then and scooting isn't really fun and I just want to get home. Last night I kept having my bad leg feel like it was gonna cramp up as I rode and my throttle hand/wrist got a bit sore (the 86cc does require nearly constant modulation around town), but nothing like when I do the whole trip. Saw a deer on the way home. Of course I ran the truck up to 100-something on a back road and then I see a deer. Thought T2 and I were gonna have a 2nd deer incident on the way home from H2O, just in the truck this time. Luckily he stood still right at the edge of the road. Slowed down some after that. Like I've said, small scoots are good for me because if I can go fast I often do.

I had a good time and aside from some idle fueling issues and the clutch feel at the end, I have no complaints about the scoot. It is kinda depressing that the 103 can't be that easy. The TPR just works. I haven't had anything leak. I don't pop the radiator cap off and get pressure or see any coolant in the expansion tank. All night I barely paid attention to the temp gauge because any time I checked it was between 110-130F. Power and feel is really close on the 103 and the 86cc, it's just the engineering that Taiwan didn't do related to sealing I guess. At least I know it's not just me. I can assemble an LC engine that works fine. It's really odd though how close they are. I think I could swap engines and if you could ride without seeing them, you might just think the 86cc is out of tune because of how it is a bit more dead at lower revs. Otherwise, they take off about the same, wheelie about the same, and revs are fairly close. The 86 will rev out about 500RPM more. It's either one heck of a coincidence that the huge ports, light piston, single ring aluminum kit nearly exactly makes up for the 17cc disparity... or it's telling me that these things are dictated by the exhaust even more that I initially thought. One thing that's odd to me though, is that this engine seems OK with the 25mm PHBL and the 103 just couldn't take it with anything I tried (if you recall that was a lot of fiddling too). Could be that the UNI vent stuck in the reeds didn't help. Maybe the airbox being more open made it worse.


I will do a video from H2O at some point, but I think I'm gonna wait. My subscribers on YouTube are way behind on the 86cc build and some are saying they can't wait to see how it runs. I kinda hate to just pop the H2O vid up and kinda ruin the process for them. I'll work on getting vids edited and caught up instead.

[pitobread]

Move up to the adjustable CDI, Do some fine tuning, and some fine transmission tuning and it sounds like you will have a winning combination.

whenever you push the limits of builds you always run into problems. Overboring to paper thin cylinder walls.. poor sealing, case flex etc... all of those are fighting you on the 103 build.

I bet with a little fine tuning you will be very happy with a more "bolt on" 86cc kit. If you want to push it I am sure you could get a MXS 45mm crank and get it up into the 90cc range for more gusto at the expense of a lighter pocketbook. But there is something to be said about just having a complete easy to get kit vs piecing everything together.

[oldgeek]

Sounds like it was a great time! You know that sportbike dude was thinking "Ill start it up and blow past him in 25'"LOL!

Seems like you got the 86cc tamed pretty well for what you are trying to accomplish. I dont know about the PHBL's but on the PHBG a leaner slide should help with the just off idle transition.

It's crazy that despite all the turd polish you put on the 103 LC it would not work. Probably the reason those kits are scarce now.

Are you going back for a second round on this one?

[90GTVert]

I was planning on going tonight too, but I don't think I am now. I wanna see what the clutch is up to and prob more importantly make sure I don't kill it before the fall hot rod show in 2 weeks. Plus, I figure I can only get away with so much nonsense before I've got red and blue behind me. Prob more productive to chill here and get video transferred and maybe work on the next part of the TPR build video.


Forgot to mention; I rode 131.2 miles just around town last night. I stopped for gas twice. The first time I didn't get it all the way to the top, but it would have been almost 44MPG. The second time I did top it off and it was 38MPG and change, from a tank that wasn't all the way full to actually getting it full. So I think it's safe to say it can get about 40MPG being a total jackass in town. Small scoots are the exact opposite of cars though. I always do much better with town than open roads because of the amount of throttle used. Still, beats the heck out of the 103. Just thinking though, I never checked mileage after the new CDI. Might be that it improves above the high 20s with a good spark.



If you are interested in what goes down at this show, here are a few quick instagram vids that I saw. A couple of the guys interested in coming to the shows asked about them so when I say it's more rowdy than the others, maybe this will help explain that.

A BMW did a burnout, got sideways and hit 2 people that were in the road cheering him on, and then fled the scene :

http://instagram.com/p/B29AG-kHV8B

Later last night, someone lit off fireworks in the median as a car did donuts :

http://instagram.com/p/B29MvAWllx-

Someone backed into/over a few people :

http://instagram.com/p/B29ITp_lHeU

There was also a vid of a Grom starting to do a burnout and a cop pulling up and he took off. Can't find it now, but comments said they never caught him.

[Kenho21]

Sept 28, 2019 12:18:31 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

I was planning on going tonight too, but I don't think I am now. I wanna see what the clutch is up to and prob more importantly make sure I don't kill it before the fall hot rod show in 2 weeks. Plus, I figure I can only get away with so much nonsense before I've got red and blue behind me. Prob more productive to chill here and get video transferred and maybe work on the next part of the TPR build video.


Forgot to mention; I rode 131.2 miles just around town last night. I stopped for gas twice. The first time I didn't get it all the way to the top, but it would have been almost 44MPG. The second time I did top it off and it was 38MPG and change, from a tank that wasn't all the way full to actually getting it full. So I think it's safe to say it can get about 40MPG being a total jackass in town. Small scoots are the exact opposite of cars though. I always do much better with town than open roads because of the amount of throttle used. Still, beats the heck out of the 103. Just thinking though, I never checked mileage after the new CDI. Might be that it improves above the high 20s with a good spark.



If you are interested in what goes down at this show, here are a few quick instagram vids that I saw. A couple of the guys interested in coming to the shows asked about them so when I say it's more rowdy than the others, maybe this will help explain that.

A BMW did a burnout, got sideways and hit 2 people that were in the road cheering him on, and then fled the scene :

http://instagr.am/p/B29AG-kHV8B

Later last night, someone lit off fireworks in the median as a car did donuts :

http://instagr.am/p/B29MvAWllx-

Someone backed into/over a few people :

http://instagr.am/p/B29ITp_lHeU

There was also a vid of a Grom starting to do a burnout and a cop pulling up and he took off. Can't find it now, but comments said they never caught him.

Uhhh...

[Kenho21]

Just be careful my friend. Cars hurt worse than deer.

[90GTVert]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot but I think you guys will like this. I was revving it up at a light with a small crowd beside me. One guy in the crowd says, "Look. It smokes every time he revs it." Then he says "Hey, you should let me tune your carb." Boy, do I wish someone would.

The other thing that I was thinking about was how I've had people at shows notice that it's a two-stroke and sometimes yell about it. That made me think... I bet no one ever goes "Hey, it's a four stroke!"

[ryan_ott]

You’ve got plenty of room on that tank to advertise that it’s a 2 stroke. I’m glad it worked out well for you.

[90GTVert]

Sept 28, 2019 14:49:49 GMT -5 ryan_ott said:

You’ve got plenty of room on that tank to advertise that it’s a 2 stroke. I’m glad it worked out well for you.

I thought the smoke out the back and the space under the front tire should tell anyone that understands what a 2T is.

Maybe make this sticker :
"It's a two-stroke. You know... like your grandfather's weedwacker or chainsaw? No? Ummm... well it's supposed to smoke. It's not on fire... yet."

I guess I could put "T2 the 2T" on the tank and have everyone scratching their heads.

[Kenho21]

Sept 28, 2019 17:54:23 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

Sept 28, 2019 14:49:49 GMT -5 ryan_ott said:

You’ve got plenty of room on that tank to advertise that it’s a 2 stroke. I’m glad it worked out well for you.

I thought the smoke out the back and the space under the front tire should tell anyone that understands what a 2T is.

Maybe make this sticker :
"It's a two-stroke. You know... like your grandfather's weedwacker or chainsaw? No? Ummm... well it's supposed to smoke. It's not on fire... yet."

I guess I could put "T2 the 2T" on the tank and have everyone scratching their heads.

Hahahaha! Yes! We need to buy you that damn sticker if you’ll put it on the tank! You’re obviously confident with the ridiculousness of the whole thing, so you might as well go big or go home!

I say we all throw in $5 (or whatever a proper decal costs to have made) to get a that on the bike. It needs a name. You give it more attention than I do my girlfriend and my dog combined. And T2 the 2T reminds me of Thomas the Train or some shit and it’s too perfect not to do.

[aeroxbud]

It is funny how a lot off people have no idea about two strokes.
Last year I went to bike night on my motorcycle. Pulled in next to a NSR250. A guy in his early 20's came over and said to the rider. "There is something wrong with your bike." " I followed you in, and your bike is smoking really bad." "Smells really awful too." "You need to get it checked out."
We just looked at each other and smiled.