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Post by MKDeuce on Jan 2, 2020 16:04:04 GMT -5
If it were me I'd replace the light with this... SEALED7 2.0: MORIMOTO BI-LEDDRL / TURN LED: 4x Philips Luxeon 3535L  LOW BEAM: 2,860 lumens / 27w  HIGH BEAM: 1,020 lumens / 12w  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 2, 2020 16:16:49 GMT -5
Looks nice, but it would be better in 5.75" and it's $250. Glad to see you again. You making plans for Cruisin' OC in May yet?  |
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Post by MKDeuce on Jan 2, 2020 16:21:37 GMT -5
Looks nice, but it would be better in 5.75" and it's $250. Glad to see you again. You making plans for Cruisin' OC in May yet? Good proper lighting isn't cheap. Plus its specs list lower wattage witch is why a suggested it. JW Speaker makes a 5.75" for $300 I haven't made plans yet, but I would like to attend if I can. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 3, 2020 13:38:52 GMT -5
I just went out to setup a circuit for the tail light and DRL halo. Before I did, I looked at the wiring diagram that I made when I did the harness. According to that, I wired it so the tail light should come on in parking light position on the headlight switch. Odd. I checked and I had all wires hooked up from the headlight switch, including the parking light output. I checked with my meter and I had continuity from the parking light output all the way to the tail light. Same wire color as the diagram and all. So it looked like it was all hooked up as my diagram said, yet my tail light only comes on when the headlight is on. WTH? I checked a few more things. Then I realized that I had two red/yellow wires going into my connector for the headlight switch. One is the power supply from the ignition switched output. The other is output to the high/low beam switch. Turns out, I've had them in the wrong spots in the connector all of this time. I guess I never paid much attention to the lack of tail light in parking mode because all lights worked when the headlight was switched on. The good thing about all of that is that I didn't have to rewire anything. I just swapped the 2 red/yellows and everything worked as it should. Then I added a wire into the parking circuit that will go to the DRL. Just waiting on the light to show up. Now for the next potential blunder. I realized that my headlight is switched to high beam in this process. I don't have an indicator for the high beam and I can't see the headlight when I'm on the scoot. Potentially I could have had the high beam on for my charging test ride. I'll see if I can tell how the switch is in the video, but I doubt it. May need a do-over to be sure I wasn't using the extra 10+ watt high beam and drainign the battery.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 4, 2020 19:29:08 GMT -5
I installed the new headlight today. That halo is freakin' bright! I think it is actually a safety feature for me in the daytime and not just a power saver. Not sure how it won't annoy people being on at night.  Before I swapped anything out, I installed my multimeter in place of my main fuse so that anything demanding battery power had to go through it. I watched it alongside my voltmeter and that let me calculate watts for various conditions. In the chart below, Key On is the key on and nothing else turned on. So pretty much just my voltmeter and Vapor should be drawing power. Parking is with the tail light on for the old light or tail light and halo for the new light.  Lower numbers than I expected for sure. I think my battery may have about had it though. Testing the new light and high beam, voltage was down to 10.9. I had the battery on the Tender while installing the new light, and it was on the Battery Tender before all of this and charged up. Not sure if that may lower my figures or not. Either way, looks like I should be able to save about 12 watts by using the DRL vs the old low beam in the day. If it can't handle a total of 8 watts (plus additional intermittent loads from turn signals and the brake light), then the "charging system" is basically worthless. I ordered a Motobatt MBTX7U to replace my old Universal Parts battery. I didn't even look at any types of Li batts because I don't think they're as resilient for this use. The Motobatt replaces a YTX7LBS, but it's 8Ah vs the UP battery being 6Ah and has 115CCA vs 85. I had one in the past for years and it was the best battery that I've ever put in a scooter and I'm hoping this one is on that level. Matt of PFS mentioned them having some issues in the past, so we'll see. |
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Post by pitobread on Jan 10, 2020 10:54:29 GMT -5
I have had a motobatt just straight die
Being agm if they get really low they are finicky to get a charge back in them too.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 10, 2020 13:04:36 GMT -5
I abused my old MotoBatt for years. I'm hoping I'll get so lucky with this one. If not, I may just buy cheapies. If I end up needing extra batts for a car show, I'll prob just be buying generic $20-25 batteries.
Some info from an Italian on YouTube that claims to be a tuner. Figured I'd copy bits in here in case it's of interest and so I won't lose it. No vids up. Don't know him. So you gotta take things with a grain of salt, but it's not all wild claims like a lot of the comments I get.
"I have done multiples tpr 86 build and the best results i have obtained were with 195-130 durations relatively for exhaust and transfers. And by the way i am not very sure about the way your did the measurment on some of your previous videos. I measure the duration of the ports with the help of a digital caliper"
I still like degree wheels and told him that I'm no rocket scientist, dyno tuner or racer so likely it won't matter much if I am off a degree.
"The only clutch i use on all my engines is the Polini 3g Evolution. And trust me i'm not the only one. Don't waste time with those chinese clutches and clutch bells. For the belt i recommend to use the polini evolution kevlar (cod 240.040.2). Same for the contrast spring, stick with Polini ones for piaggio engines which by the way you can install on your engine evenif it is minarelli cause you have 128mm pulleys . Try the ones that are between 28kg to 32kg, and find the one which gives the best performance."
If this is all correct, I was unaware that Piaggio stuff fit even the OR Minarelli. I at least should check into the belt to see what it is. I just did a quick search on Polini's site and google and nothing came up for 240.040.2 on Polini's site and google only gave me someone's for sale ad for a scoot that said it had a Polini Kevlar belt of that number.
"For what concers the intake, vl14 malossi reed valve is very good, better than the vforce u have now. I only use that or the stage6 FKM on the engines i make.
Also you could go up to 28mm for the carburator (28vhst dell'orto recommended) but that depends on you."
After looking it up, I think the VL14 is what I used some time ago on my 100s. Then I switched to the Minarelli VFORCE3 and it seemed to help. Now I have the huge KX85 reeds that I wouldn't swear are best, but they certainly shouldn't be restrictive. Prob the worst thing about them is the whole setup lengthens the intake tract a bit, and I'd do best with rear facing PITA stuff but my intention is not to have a high dollar every last drop of power build ATM. That's for trailer queens. Even though I am still somewhat ashamed that I put T2 in the truck for car shows, I do still ride it. Maybe someday I'll do the rear facing conversion, but it's not high on my list right now.
"now in italy we had the best company in the world producing exhausts (see jollymoto) but it closed about a few months ago. And trust me their exhaust were the best , i regularly sit on a dyno to test scooters im preparing for races and even between 2 good exhaust there can be a difference of 2-3 maximum hp output, so imagine how low you are now with that stock one installed. There are other companies producing high quality exhausts for 50cc tuned scooter, and one is ScooterTube (see his youtube , instagram or facebook) which is relatively new but its achieving very good results. "
Guess what I heard from ScooterTuning a bit ago was true. They told me that it was rumored that JollyMoto was closing and would no longer make 2FAST exhausts. At the time at least, they weren't sure who would take over. Prob old news to everyone but me by now.
He also said there are better ignitions but I would need to lose charging output. I already miss the stock charging so no charging is a big no for me.
Anyway, lots of info that isn't big news to anyone but the CVT stuff was interesting to me. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the named belt is going to be widely available.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 10, 2020 20:26:05 GMT -5
I put the Motobatt in and checked the light again. Now I see 9W parking, 26.5W low and 34.5W high when I check current vs volts. Not sure if that just changes because the battery can put out more. Maybe if I tested with a car battery it would show even more watts?
Took it for a ride. I was gonna do 2 hours in town and out of town. Didn't need to go that long to see a result. With the parking lights (DRL halo and tail light) on it was charging over 16V cruising out of town. I saw as high as 16.7V. In town, it will hang around 15-15.5V cruising around slow (20-30MPH). It can't even handle the 9W measured at idle so the battery does have to take up the slack whenever I'm sitting still. That said, I checked the battery before I left town with the engine off and it was 12.9 IIRC, which is about where it was before I started. Then I checked after the cruise home at 50-60MPH and it was 13.1V. Over an hour and 28.0 miles.
So it looks like I could probably ride around as much as I want in the daytime unless it's a total traffic jam and it's stuck at idle or if I had to use the cooling fan at all. Still don't think it's going to keep the actual headlight going for a long time. The halo and the tail light combined are about 6-7W according to what I've collected so far. Not sure how much is just the halo. I could use a switch and turn it off to drop maybe 3-5W as a guess.
Kinda sad how little this can handle if you aren't full bore and trying to use DC lighting. Basically I'd guess you'd want to stick with a max of 10-15W if you want to ride however you want to ride and not worry too much. That sounds wrong, but I don't think I've got it hooked up wrong at this point, though the regulator isn't regulating much.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 11, 2020 0:12:39 GMT -5
248.040.2 is the number of the Polini belt that the Italian guy recommended in the post above, after inquiring if the initial post was correct. I looked it up and it says 785-17.8-30. Not gonna be of use to me. Currently using 816-17.5-30. 788-17-28 is stock for these. Maybe a decent stock replacement, but I don't think the width would be good.
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Post by MKDeuce on Jan 11, 2020 23:08:50 GMT -5
I put the Motobatt in and checked the light again. Now I see 9W parking, 26.5W low and 34.5W high when I check current vs volts. Not sure if that just changes because the battery can put out more. Maybe if I tested with a car battery it would show even more watts? What was the voltage and amps in the previous test, 10.9v? Here are specs listed for the JW SpeakerCurrent Draw 2.20A @ 12V DC (Low Beam) 1.70A @ 14V DC (Low Beam) 1.10A @ 24V DC (Low Beam) 3.50A @ 12V DC (High Beam) 2.70A @ 14V DC (High Beam) 1.70A @ 24V DC (High Beam) |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 12, 2020 8:37:40 GMT -5
I put the Motobatt in and checked the light again. Now I see 9W parking, 26.5W low and 34.5W high when I check current vs volts. Not sure if that just changes because the battery can put out more. Maybe if I tested with a car battery it would show even more watts? What was the voltage and amps in the previous test, 10.9v? Here are specs listed for the JW SpeakerCurrent Draw 2.20A @ 12V DC (Low Beam) 1.70A @ 14V DC (Low Beam) 1.10A @ 24V DC (Low Beam) 3.50A @ 12V DC (High Beam) 2.70A @ 14V DC (High Beam) 1.70A @ 24V DC (High Beam) With the old battery, new light : Key On : 0.165A @ 12.7V Parking : 0.671A @ 12.0V Low beam : 2.07A @ 11.2V High Beam : 2.5A @ 10.9V So you can see the voltage dropped a lot with that old battery. Also remember that what I'm measuring is my whole system. All draw aside from turn signals and brake lights, so that expensive light would actually cause me more problems from what I'm seeing. I put the new MotoBatt in and tested and power consumption with the high beam particularly went up, so it looks like the old battery was in worse shape than I had realized. Then I hooked up a car battery and tried the tests, so I could see if even the new batt could limit what I was seeing. The numbers between the MotoBatt and car battery were really close. Basically just the margin for error that I seem to get doing multiple tests anyway. For comparison, key off vs high beam on that old batt test differed by 1.8V. With the car battery the voltage changed by 0.4. I installed a switch yesterday to let me turn the halo DRL off independently. That way I can use the low or high beam without the roughly 6W draw of the halo to save some power and because I think it will be easier on other drivers at night. I rode with the low beam on without the halo yesterday. I think it was about 50 miles. Came home with the battery at a higher voltage than when I left. My old battery was definitely part of the problem. Basically what I have seen is that I can support the roughly 20W of my system with the low beam on as long as I'm not stopped too much. If I'm cruising fast, it's no problem. I saw it charging up to 16V at times with the low beam on yesterday. Even riding around town, it maintains aside from when I'm stuck at a light or going really slow. If I can stay above about 7500RPM, then it's okay. Flicking to high beam drops voltage a bit, but that would probably still be usable somewhere over 40MPH. So pretty much my main challenge at this point would be any time that I'd have to be stopped or going really slow for a long period of time. If it's hot and I have to use the radiator fan, then I've really got an issue... but I rarely turn that on. |
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Post by 190mech on Jan 12, 2020 15:44:35 GMT -5
I gotta ask,comparing the hyper zoot ignition to the small flywheel Hoca or NCY,are they close in performance and charging ability??
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 12, 2020 17:46:55 GMT -5
I gotta ask,comparing the hyper zoot ignition to the small flywheel Hoca or NCY,are they close in performance and charging ability?? I think they're prob actually pretty close in charging and responsiveness. The inner rotor has a slight advantage for throttle response, but I think most would be happy with either and if you did a blind study it may be hard to tell the difference. Performance gains seem to be better with this, but that's likely the timing curve doing a lot of it. The HOCA/NCY was so much easier to setup since they use the standard keyed flywheel. |
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Post by aeroxbud on Jan 12, 2020 18:46:18 GMT -5
It's a shame, but so many manufacturers think it's ok to run poor lighting on these scooters. It wouldn't be hard for them to make it much better.
I guess they think it's ok as the maximum speed is so low.
My slider is no better than the 6v system I had on my DT50 in the 80's!
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Post by 90GTVert on Jan 14, 2020 14:38:13 GMT -5
TPR 26 vid is up, covering the charging and lighting stuff I've been talking about here... plus a little fail near the end from my last ride. www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ununir6_fc |
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