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Post by MKDeuce on Jan 14, 2020 19:15:46 GMT -5
The specs I posted for the JW Speaker light were for you to have something to compare to. I wasn't trying to say it would solve your problem.
Your new headlight wattage rating was probably tested at running voltage somewhere around 14 volts to give 30W on low beam; 45W on high beam.
2.08A @ 14.4V DC = 30W (Low Beam)
3.12A @ 14.4V DC = 45W (High Beam)
If you take those amp numbers and run it at a lower voltage we start to get closer to your numbers, but this is just for comparison's sake.
2.08A @ 12V DC = 24.96W (Low Beam)
3.12A @ 12V DC = 37.44W (High Beam)
Now since you know the wattage the light is advertised at and know what voltage you are feeding it, notice how the amp draw goes up
2.50A @ 12V DC = 30W (Low Beam)
3.75A @ 12V DC = 45W (High Beam)
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 20, 2020 0:01:22 GMT -5
A week or so ago, I rode about 150 miles and that put me right at 1,000 miles on the TPR 86cc setup. We all know I'm an aluminum cylinder / high end parts noob. The only aluminum cylinder that I ever owned (many years ago) was destroyed in short order, so I don't know what to expect for sure. I've seen some people say that their TPR kit was totally trashed within 500-1,000 miles. Some reported them being junk in 1,000-2,000 miles. I assumed that it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull it apart at 1,000 miles because of this, and had a replacement piston ring on hand. I figured it would at least need a ring, if not an entire piston kit. I was very pleased when I removed the head and saw that all o-rings were still intact and there were no signs of leakage. Absolutely crazy to me after the crap that I went through with the 103cc LC. Really? It can be that easy?  Here's what the cylinder looked like after removing it and just wiping it with paper towels. Clearly a piston has been traveling in there, but it's not what I thought I'd see. There's scuffing, but I can't feel anything with a fingernail. The worst looking line is where the piston ring end gap is, and I can't feel anything around that at all either. What you an see at the bridge is the relief from the factory.     Here's the piston, again after just wiping off the oil. Clearly it has been running pretty rich. Even after riding in cooler weather, everything is wet. I was really thinking the piston would look worse than this based on accounts from some other 86cc users. Plus, my AC and LC iron stuff has never looked this good. This may be literally the first time I've ever pulled apart a Minarelli with some miles on it and not had ash on the underside of the crown. I figured it was just what happened when you run anywhere near WOT a lot with these things.    Piston after cleanup with a brass brush on the crown. Everything else was cleaned with a plastic brush and brake parts cleaner and then scrubbed with soap and water.  The wrist pin was also kind of surprising to me. I'm used to seeing these with lots of discoloration.  I got out the dial bore indicator, micrometer and feeler gauges to do some more checks.  The piston ring end gap was my first check. I was a bit amazed. It was initially 0.006". After 1,000 miles it's 0.007". I'm more accustomed to seeing the gap double when I pull stuff apart. I proceeded to go over the rest. Taper and out of round specs were excellent compared to the cheap iron cylinders that I normally inspect. At worst, out of round was 0.0003" by my measurements. The worst taper figures were 0.0009". After seeing everything else looking good, I did think the piston to cylinder clearance would be tighter for this all aluminum cylinder kit. It basically ranges from 0.0035" to just over 0.004". I spent quite a bit of time making sure my mic was zeroed, doing and re-doing and re-doing measurements. The dial bore gauge was zeroed to the piston's measured diameter, so I got the clearance specs that way and then just did the math for the rest. I even jammed 0.0035" worth of feeler gauges in there to make sure nothing went awry along the way. Now, I'm not saying this is troubling to me. The last time I broke out the dial bore gauge on an iron bore I saw 0.008" clearance on a kit that I was using and the replacement was around 0.004". Just thought this may be tighter being like materials. I did notice that the axis with thrust surfaces had the largest measurements, so I guess I'm seeing wear there, but again we're talking about 0.0003" at worst for out of round. Click to enlarge.
 There are A, B and C pistons for this kit. I assume that they go up by 0.01mm (~0.0004"), so I could get a piston 0.02mm/0.0008" larger. I don't think it's needed (or worth trying to get one here ATM). If I'm wrong, please let me know. I don't see any reason to even replace the ring. The thing doesn't even look scuffed and it's well within initial recommendations; just barely above the minimum still. Overall, I didn't think it would go this well. Not that it's like-new by far, but I expected much worse. I'm starting to think I've been doing it wrong with cheap kits and AC for the majority of my scooting life. Plus, this is with no tricks. I didn't drill the piston to correspond with the exhaust port bridge or chamfer the skirts in hopes of better oiling. The main thing that I have done is ran it fairly rich. When I first started this high end deal, many of us seemed to think that a large bridged port was just a bad idea for extended higher speed cruising. I will say that it has been trucked to car shows, so I haven't done 70 miles each way on open roads at speed. I have been on the highway and plenty of 55-65MPH cruising near WOT. I guess the other thing in my favor so far is a lack of power and RPM compared to perhaps what happens when it's paired with a high end racing exhaust. EDIT : Oh, my squish is still basically 0.2mm high. They actually say 0.9mm +/- 0.1mm, so I'd be within 0.1mm. Lowest measurement that I've done was 1.09mm on one corner. I'm thinking about putting the combustion chamber part of the head in the lathe and taking off 0.15-0.2mm (assuming it chucks up straight enough). The ridge between the chamber and the rest of the head head is over 0.4mm thick. I just did a super quick check to see if it was more than 0.2mm. Plenty of space between the rest of the surfaces and I don't think that would ruin the o-ring seal. I could try to get a thinner base gasket, but everything aligns well and durations are right on spec at 190/130 as-is. |
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Post by oldgeek on Feb 20, 2020 7:10:48 GMT -5
.....................EDIT : Oh, my squish is still basically 0.2mm high. They actually say 0.9mm +/- 0.1mm, so I'd be within 0.1mm. Lowest measurement that I've done was 1.09mm on one corner. I'm thinking about putting the combustion chamber part of the head in the lathe and taking off 0.15-0.2mm (assuming it chucks up straight enough). The ridge between the chamber and the rest of the head head is over 0.4mm thick. I just did a super quick check to see if it was more than 0.2mm. Plenty of space between the rest of the surfaces and I don't think that would ruin the o-ring seal. I could try to get a thinner base gasket, but everything aligns well and durations are right on spec at 190/130 as-is. Interesting results for sure, thanks for busting some of the "myths" about high end cylinders, or at least this one. IMHO, I would play with the base gasketing to adjust the squish a bit before I would start mucking with your sealing surfaces. You have done very well with this cylinder so far without doing any modifications that I can remember. You could always make chips at a later time to see how it goes.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 20, 2020 10:03:19 GMT -5
.....................EDIT : Oh, my squish is still basically 0.2mm high. They actually say 0.9mm +/- 0.1mm, so I'd be within 0.1mm. Lowest measurement that I've done was 1.09mm on one corner. I'm thinking about putting the combustion chamber part of the head in the lathe and taking off 0.15-0.2mm (assuming it chucks up straight enough). The ridge between the chamber and the rest of the head head is over 0.4mm thick. I just did a super quick check to see if it was more than 0.2mm. Plenty of space between the rest of the surfaces and I don't think that would ruin the o-ring seal. I could try to get a thinner base gasket, but everything aligns well and durations are right on spec at 190/130 as-is. Interesting results for sure, thanks for busting some of the "myths" about high end cylinders, or at least this one. IMHO, I would play with the base gasketing to adjust the squish a bit before I would start mucking with your sealing surfaces. You have done very well with this cylinder so far without doing any modifications that I can remember. You could always make chips at a later time to see how it goes. That makes sense, but my thought was that I don't have to try to find the right gasket/material or mess with timing and alignment that has been spot on to spec. If the head is cut, it just uses the replacement gasket kit every time it has to come apart. As long as I don't screw it up (it's me so who knows) and .2mm doesn't make the o-rings stop sealing, then it's easy in the long run. How long that run is with this kit is still unknown though. Could be that the next time I pull it apart it is actually toast so it doesn't matter unless I get another TPR kit and then I already have a modified head. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Feb 20, 2020 10:10:57 GMT -5
Do you recall who makes the piston? Quality components make for a lasting motor, reduced wear could also be related to lower temperatures being LC now. Nice to see it’s holding up well for you.
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 20, 2020 13:42:51 GMT -5
Do you recall who makes the piston? Apparently I didn't take any clear pics of the piston box. Looks like it said motorparts.it (TPR's site), but in the corner it said Asso Werke. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Feb 20, 2020 16:24:52 GMT -5
Do you recall who makes the piston? Apparently I didn't take any clear pics of the piston box. Looks like it said motorparts.it (TPR's site), but in the corner it said Asso Werke. If I’m not mistaken that’s who makes the Polini pistons, they have all had Asso imprinted on them. I think you’ll have a decent service life with the piston and ring. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 24, 2020 19:34:58 GMT -5
Shaved the head today. Got it down to about 0.0015" from true chucked in the lathe, after 30+ minutes of turning and hitting it watching an indicator. Setup the digital indicator and zeroed it when the cutting bit touched the head. Then moved it in 0.20mm and locked down the carriage so I could take it off in one pass. First time I've ever used an indicator on the carriage and it was easier than using the compound rest to me. Luckily it turned out with a good finish.  Just gotta get it back together at some point and see where the squish actually is. Measurements seem to indicate that I'm pretty close to the intended cut. |
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Post by Kenho21 on Feb 24, 2020 21:41:33 GMT -5
Looks very nice! Impressive!
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Post by PIG on Feb 26, 2020 21:06:09 GMT -5
This riding season will be the third year on my S6 R/t 95. It still runs as strong as ever, and it see’s lots of 14,000+ rpm pulls.
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 27, 2020 18:22:55 GMT -5
I just came in from putting the top end back together. Checking squish in 4 spots showed 0.92mm, 0.92mm, 0.9mm and 0.92mm. So the minimum clearance is right on TPR's recommended spec. Maybe it will drop a tad after riding and re-torque, but they say plus or minus 0.1mm so I should still be fine.
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Post by Kenho21 on Feb 27, 2020 23:05:51 GMT -5
I just came in from putting the top end back together. Checking squish in 4 spots showed 0.92mm, 0.92mm, 0.9mm and 0.92mm. So the minimum clearance is right on TPR's recommended spec. Maybe it will drop a tad after riding and re-torque, but they say plus or minus 0.1mm so I should still be fine. Glad that seemed to work out nicely for you... tell me what that feels like. haha  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 28, 2020 10:22:38 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 2, 2020 16:09:12 GMT -5
The engine passed a leak test and I cleaned up the rear wheel. Then I opened up a box that came in last week.      It's the Malossi MHR Big Bore exhaust for 77-86cc engines, as recommended to me by ScooterTuning.Ca. I'm not actually ready to use the pipe yet, but I wanted to see if it fit with the center stand. Figured it wouldn't, but wanted to be certain. It certainly doesn't fit with the center stand. Not even close. Actually, the flange didn't even fit on the engine at first. I'm not sure if my TPR cylinder is made wrong or if it's normal, but the bolt spacing for exhausts is just a tiny bit too wide on the TPR for the Malossi flange and it was the same with the flange that the Peace Pipe used. I elongated the holes in the flange just a little. Also cleaned up a little leftover nastiness on the inlet of the flange with the bur while I was at it. Nothing terrible. Now that I know that I can't use my center stand with this exhaust, I want to try to get a side stand setup next. Ryan sent me a used one that's kinda worn and I got 2 from scootertuning. I thought I ordered the same one that Ryan sent, but it has a shorter stand. It's ScooterTuning's brand for a bugeye Zuma. The other is a Motoforce for the same application and it has a longer stand with a bend in it. Hopefully I can get one to work without looking absolutely hideous on T2's bare frame.  I'll still put the Peace Pipe back on to see if the squish change did much before the MHR exhaust is ever used. I'll also try to remember to check and see if we have dimensions for this pipe. If not, I can try to get them at some point. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 3, 2020 20:13:41 GMT -5
I was wrong about the new ScooterTuning.Ca stand and the one that Ryan sent me. They are the same. lol I thought they were yesterday and then looked at the picture when I posted and the new one clearly looks shorter to me in that last pic in my last post... but they're the same. That's the stand that I ended up using. Not the most fun I've had recently. I tacked it on first so I could check it out. Got the scoot off of the bench and put the stand down and it broke off. Re-welded a little. The stand flexed and then the weld broke again. Put a better bead across it and then realized that the stand flexes a lot under weight so the scoot was leaning quite a bit more than I was comfortable with. Ground off all of the welds and started over with much less angle. Put a bead all the way across the top to start so I wouldn't go through the breaking/re-welding process again.  You may notice that I have an airbox on there instead of my regular remote airbox. The remote airbox didn't require much clearance, but I wanted to be sure I could use a standard airbox in the future. I never put the seat on, but I could stand up and get to the stand to push it out without much issue. The lean angle seemed reasonable to me now. I put a digital angle gauge on there and it was from about 10.5-14 degrees, depending which surface I put it on that I expect to be relatively level when upright.   I ran a bead across the bottom and later filled in the sides as well so it's welded all around. I also put a quick bead on the side/under bracket that's part of the stand. I saw that the used one from Ryan was partially busted off so I figured it couldn't hurt to add a little extra.  I'm not a fan of the flex in this stand. The Motoforce stand seems pretty similar though. I guess it's fairly normal. I went and compared to the TMAX, but that thing is rock solid. That didn't make me feel any better. Also not sure if I should add some sort of bracket under it to sort of bridge the frame and stand for additional support. It feels rigid now, but I'm kinda paranoid after seeing leverage snap off welds that I thought were at least good enough for test fitting. It also doesn't seem incredibly solid when extended down. I may grind off a little of the stop so it can push forward farther. Not sure. I'm definitely wishing I still had the rear brake lever that included a parking brake feature but I ground off the last spare assembly that I had that included that when I hit the deer and then I couldn't find a replacement. Plus, I can't put my left foot at any angle on the footpeg now. I don't have my 2 sets of pegs so that let me move my feet a little to stay more comfortable. I guess that's more of the price of going fast. I think the side stand experience as of now has made me question the hyper race more than anything else I've experienced so far with it. Well... maybe close with the charging/lighting. |
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