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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 25, 2023 11:51:01 GMT -5
I understand you didn't had time but what I would do is get a new malossi flange. Too easy. OK... too expensive. $42.xx for steel, and it's just what I need... another project. lol For some reason seems your scoot is losing power somewhere on the cvt. Why do you say this? This is kinda like the comments that make me say I'm the slowest scooter on YouTube. A lot of people tell me it's not fast enough. I have to wonder what everyone else's experience is with a 300 pound rider on a racing scoot. I'm going to stress the CVT more aside from the obvious more general mass vs acceleration stuff. Maybe I'm wrong and my setup sucks, but it does what I'd expect based on being around another RC1 quite a bit and watching videos of regular people with them (not Trofei bikes). ...And might I remind you that I'm the 2nd fastest 2T in the US. 🤣 The 0.35 is a safe timing but not the correct one 0.35 is for the stock stroke and rod length you need to look over the crankshaft degrees. 0.4mm BTDC is standard stroke spec. 0.35 is long stroke.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 25, 2023 15:29:45 GMT -5
I understand you didn't had time but what I would do is get a new malossi flange. Too easy. OK... too expensive. $42.xx for steel, and it's just what I need... another project. lol For some reason seems your scoot is losing power somewhere on the cvt. Why do you say this? This is kinda like the comments that make me say I'm the slowest scooter on YouTube. A lot of people tell me it's not fast enough. I have to wonder what everyone else's experience is with a 300 pound rider on a racing scoot. I'm going to stress the CVT more aside from the obvious more general mass vs acceleration stuff. Maybe I'm wrong and my setup sucks, but it does what I'd expect based on being around another RC1 quite a bit and watching videos of regular people with them (not Trofei bikes). ...And might I remind you that I'm the 2nd fastest 2T in the US. 🤣 The 0.35 is a safe timing but not the correct one 0.35 is for the stock stroke and rod length you need to look over the crankshaft degrees. 0.4mm BTDC is standard stroke spec. 0.35 is long stroke. Well I didn't expect for you to be so mad when I was just trying to help Never said your scoot is the slowest on YouTube you never one since comment from me putting you down but since you are talking that route Yes it seems the cvt is always slipping As comparison Not to long ago a built a 70cc3 air cooled based on a s6 kit on a zuma with all plastics lights and so on and with a windshield for a friend We weights 350 lbs It does easy 67mph with him on it With short gearing. Those malossi kits they easily do 90mph + The 100cc3 do over 100mph. But what I know right So I don't know if you are fed up with stupid comments on your YouTube but again I was just trying to help.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 25, 2023 20:10:59 GMT -5
Well I didn't expect for you to be so mad when I was just trying to help Never said your scoot is the slowest on YouTube you never one since comment from me putting you down but since you are talking that route Yes it seems the cvt is always slipping As comparison Not to long ago a built a 70cc3 air cooled based on a s6 kit on a zuma with all plastics lights and so on and with a windshield for a friend We weights 350 lbs It does easy 67mph with him on it With short gearing. Those malossi kits they easily do 90mph + The 100cc3 do over 100mph. But what I know right So I don't know if you are fed up with stupid comments on your YouTube but again I was just trying to help. I think there's a misunderstanding. I'm not mad, upset, or anything near it. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just inquiring, because I hear so many comments about my scooter being slow or not working right. I was looking for clarification. What is it that makes people think this? That's what you've tried to do here. I say my scooter is the slowest on YouTube. You didn't say that and others don't. It's a joke. I've raced enough stock 4Ts to know that I'm not quite there. Close, but not quite. 😁 I wish someone would make a few adjustments and have it going an honest 90+. I don't see it. I've got a video about speed with rider weight and aero considered (I can't tuck in much at all) and it would take an awful lot of horsepower for me to go 90+ honest. My calculations of frontal area and drag for this scooter and I put me at 39.8HP for 90MPH. I'm not claiming those to be totally accurate, but I believe my numbers to be at least ballpark from all of my experiences and absolutely will claim that no RC-1 is anything like it came out of the box if it makes 40HP. That said, I know I could post at least 85MPH. It wouldn't be what I'd call honest. No tailwind, decline etc... Preferably an average of going opposite directions on the same stretch of road back to back if you really wanna know accurate speed. Plus, there's the fact that I don't really care that much. I just don't use the top speed. To be totally honest, I think my only motivation to go faster than 80 is so people will stop saying I'm slow. Again, please don't take any of this as upset. I just struggle to see why people believe all of my setups are slow beyond where they should be with a very large rider. Hopefully I can get my normal sized sport bike friend on it before too long and see what changes.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 26, 2023 2:53:51 GMT -5
i know the mvt calls for 0.4 stock and 0.35 for long stroke but this is very vague and inaccurate if the 0.4 is correct for stock then you need to check the crank degrees then match the same degrees for your engine combo i also have the same ignition and they suck the ignition curve isn't the greatest ( my malossi should arrive this week) if your engine revs about 14k you should be seeing about 14 to 16 degrees at that rpm yes i it seems something off on your scoot and i under stand the weight difference it just seems to be slipping to much i would like to see it with different settings and possible other torque drive also not sure right now i would need to go back on the video but i think you have a miss match on the pulley angle regarding your exhaust you should by the s6 falange tube it costs about 12bucks you just need to make the bolting plate
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 26, 2023 4:20:20 GMT -5
The RC-One and TPR 86cc have the same 44mm stroke. I checked the timing across the RPM range with the TPR at 0.35mm and this should be the same. I put that, the MVT timing advanced 3 degrees and the Malossi ignition's published curve all together so you can see that 3 degrees of advance would put me roughly where Malossi specifies in the powerband.
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 26, 2023 12:07:52 GMT -5
What fuel do you feed the beast? Something like 100+ octane? Otherwise 35+ degrees advance is getting into very dangerous territory no?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 26, 2023 12:22:29 GMT -5
This is a real street scoot. I feed it whatever is premium at the pump. Usually 91-93 octane (R+M)/2, 10% ethanol. Been like this since day 1... it's now day 400 or something like that. Same way the TPR 86cc ran for it's whole life. The good thing with both of them is that they are totally dead in the range where advance is way high. These don't really start coming to life till after 10,000 rippums.
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Post by awines2326 on Jun 26, 2023 20:08:25 GMT -5
I'm really curious about the timing for the MVT. It kinda freaks me out accepting the timing advice of the ignition company VS the cylinder company? All my builds have an HPI ignition except this scooter with the MVT, and I completely disregarded HPIs instructions and went with the far more aggressive timing of Stage6 and they run like crazy. So Stage 6 suggests anywhere from 2.5-3mm BTDC and that's a major difference from MVTs .35-.4mm BTDC. I can't imagine the ignition curve is advancing 2mm or more above the setting but only a timing light will tell. But the folks telling you your pipe isn't hitting properly might be onto something based on the timing settings. Have you gone more aggressive and done tests based on what Malossi suggested with your kit?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 26, 2023 21:42:09 GMT -5
I would not disregard an ignition companies specs totally as a start, because they don't all work the same. For example, even if you have an MVT, their programmable CDI requires a lot more advanced based setting than their standard CDI. If a company suggests something with their own ignition, actual timing may be way off with another ignition. If you're looking at actual timing curves, that's different.
Timing has been on my to-do list basically. Never got that far. I spent a long time just riding.
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Post by awines2326 on Jun 27, 2023 9:01:24 GMT -5
The RC-One and TPR 86cc have the same 44mm stroke. I checked the timing across the RPM range with the TPR at 0.35mm and this should be the same. I put that, the MVT timing advanced 3 degrees and the Malossi ignition's published curve all together so you can see that 3 degrees of advance would put me roughly where Malossi specifies in the powerband. Is this the published timing curves or your own measurements? EDIT - I see these are measurements you've taken and inclusive of the .35mm BTDC setting. So for comparison the S6 kit suggests between 2.5-3.5mm BTDC if I remember correctly. With a 44mm stroke / 360 degrees = 8.18 Degrees per MM. So S6 suggests at most 3.5mm x 8.18 degrees = 28.63 degrees as the setting. .35mm as suggested by MVT = 2.863 degrees. Interestingly that is 10% of the Cylinders suggested timing. So do we assume that MVT is saying they advance 10x what you set knowing the aggressive kits will need it? Also if you're setting the ignition at 2.863 degrees and its advancing up to 42.5 degrees that's almost 15x your advance setting. Just kind of thinking out loud here but if I were to set my timing at say 3mm BTDC making it 24.54 degrees BTDC and it advances 15x like your graph shows, that gets be firing at 360 degrees! Anyways all of that to figure out 90GTVert is correct is saying to take the ignition company info into consideration since obviously with that much advance things would not be working out well at the cylinder companies suggestion. Even at the .35mm point that's a pretty aggressive advance.
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 27, 2023 11:31:39 GMT -5
The RC-One and TPR 86cc have the same 44mm stroke. I checked the timing across the RPM range with the TPR at 0.35mm and this should be the same. I put that, the MVT timing advanced 3 degrees and the Malossi ignition's published curve all together so you can see that 3 degrees of advance would put me roughly where Malossi specifies in the powerband. With a 44mm stroke / 360 degrees = 8.18 Degrees per MM. You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees.
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Post by awines2326 on Jun 27, 2023 14:54:13 GMT -5
With a 44mm stroke / 360 degrees = 8.18 Degrees per MM. You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees. I've never heard that before! Do you happen to know how to work it out?
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 27, 2023 15:29:13 GMT -5
You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees. I've never heard that before! Do you happen to know how to work it out? Before (long time ago) I had the same thought as you had to be honest. But then some really knowledgeable guy told me how it really works. You can only use your method for calculating advance for base settings. After that you have to either make markings on the flywheel, use a timing light, or make calculations for every measurement and go from there. You need to apply some sort of formula. Here;s a calulcator lambretta-images.com/tuningh/port-timing-calculators/degrees-to-mm-timing-calculator/
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Post by awines2326 on Jun 27, 2023 15:53:33 GMT -5
Thank you Lucas!
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2023 17:34:37 GMT -5
I've never heard that before! Do you happen to know how to work it out? Before (long time ago) I had the same thought as you had to be honest. But then some really knowledgeable guy told me how it really works. You can only use your method for calculating advance for base settings. After that you have to either make markings on the flywheel, use a timing light, or make calculations for every measurement and go from there. You need to apply some sort of formula. Here;s a calulcator lambretta-images.com/tuningh/port-timing-calculators/degrees-to-mm-timing-calculator/I heard some really cool guy also put 2 here so it's easy to go from degrees to distance or distance to degrees : www.49ccscoot.com/calculators.html
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