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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2023 18:25:53 GMT -5
Totally off-topic... While going through things, getting a vid ready for this Friday, I noticed that all of the people on sidewalks and parking lots were watching me troll rental scooters (giving them 3 honks from a roll, knowing the roll is all they've got). Not something I point out in vids cause it's too hard to see, but it's kinda funny looking backwards at reactions. I think the lady putting her palm up is saying, "Isn't that the slowest scooter on YouTube? He's trying to race it?!? Now I've seen everything.".
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Post by 808ministroke on Jun 27, 2023 19:05:19 GMT -5
Not sure if Malossi or Selettra carries cdi boxes which lets you program your own timing curve. Otherwise you could try one of those and program your own timing curve. And if you want to go all out get a carb with TPS and have that input to the curve as well. I know HPI has ignition kits which let you program your own curve. It comes with software and all. webshop.hpi.be/tunebox/ When I went from an MVT digital direct to A Malosi Team Ignition With programmable curves and such it really drastically changed the whole setup for the better and noticeably so.
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Post by awines2326 on Jun 27, 2023 20:42:59 GMT -5
I got my bike running tonight and with the timing light I understand now why they say to set .35mm BTDC, it's so far advanced at a couple thousand RPM
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Post by billwill on Jun 27, 2023 21:46:37 GMT -5
Not sure if Malossi or Selettra carries cdi boxes which lets you program your own timing curve. Otherwise you could try one of those and program your own timing curve. And if you want to go all out get a carb with TPS and have that input to the curve as well. I know HPI has ignition kits which let you program your own curve. It comes with software and all. webshop.hpi.be/tunebox/ When I went from an MVT digital direct to A Malosi Team Ignition With programmable curves and such it really drastically changed the whole setup for the better and noticeably so. Been seeing a lot of love given to MVT here on this forum. When does it become worth and/or noticeable to do such an upgrade? Do you only reap the benefits with something high end that revs to the moon our would you see it with a sport kit or even stock-ish setup?
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 0:22:37 GMT -5
With a 44mm stroke / 360 degrees = 8.18 Degrees per MM. You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees. You can't base on other ignitions They act differently Process time Time to charge the coil and so on.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 0:30:01 GMT -5
Not sure if Malossi or Selettra carries cdi boxes which lets you program your own timing curve. Otherwise you could try one of those and program your own timing curve. And if you want to go all out get a carb with TPS and have that input to the curve as well. I know HPI has ignition kits which let you program your own curve. It comes with software and all. webshop.hpi.be/tunebox/ When I went from an MVT digital direct to A Malosi Team Ignition With programmable curves and such it really drastically changed the whole setup for the better and noticeably so. They are not programmable They are preprogrammed on the Eprom you can select from the pre existing programed curves.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 0:34:10 GMT -5
You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees. You can't base on other ignitions They act differently Process time Time to charge the coil and so on. Mvt is a ok option if you want to keep some kinda of changing system Their ignition curve isn't the best and I seen quite often randomly start to retard above 12k Hpi have a great option you can also get a programmable cdi or even just simply request them to build a curve for your build
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 28, 2023 0:37:33 GMT -5
Before (long time ago) I had the same thought as you had to be honest. But then some really knowledgeable guy told me how it really works. You can only use your method for calculating advance for base settings. After that you have to either make markings on the flywheel, use a timing light, or make calculations for every measurement and go from there. You need to apply some sort of formula. Here;s a calulcator lambretta-images.com/tuningh/port-timing-calculators/degrees-to-mm-timing-calculator/I heard some really cool guy also put 2 here so it's easy to go from degrees to distance or distance to degrees : www.49ccscoot.com/calculators.htmlCoulda know this🤣 Thanks Brent!
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 0:39:46 GMT -5
The RC-One and TPR 86cc have the same 44mm stroke. I checked the timing across the RPM range with the TPR at 0.35mm and this should be the same. I put that, the MVT timing advanced 3 degrees and the Malossi ignition's published curve all together so you can see that 3 degrees of advance would put me roughly where Malossi specifies in the powerband. Biggest problem I see with mvt is that stupid electric noise or wasted spark and I seen they start to retard on their own. Iam not too far from you maybe one day I will take my scoot up to you so you can ride it and see how it goes with you on it. I need to go back on your videos and check that a bit more. I can be wrong but I believe you have a problem there similar to something I had before.
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 28, 2023 0:44:00 GMT -5
You're unfortunately wrong there sir... 1mm measured at TDC or BDC relates to more crank degrees than measured at mid stroke. You'll have to apply a formula if you want to link measured distance to crank degrees. You can't base on other ignitions They act differently Process time Time to charge the coil and so on. Not sure what you mean there. Im saying you can't linearly link mm's to degrees when figuring out advance or retard. It's universal, no matter which ignition, coil or if your toilet flushes clockwise or anti clockwise.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 0:56:41 GMT -5
You can't base on other ignitions They act differently Process time Time to charge the coil and so on. Not sure what you mean there. Im saying you can't linearly link mm's to degrees when figuring out advance or retard. It's universal, no matter which ignition, coil or if your toilet flushes clockwise or anti clockwise. you were comparing the advance from a s6 to a mvt and you cant from the point were you have the ig set to the spark occurs there is a delay and its not the same for all ignitions might not seem logic but once you start to run crazy compression ratios ( 15.5 /1 +) most the times you need to use a knock sensor and some of this is way more sense because some friends over in europe i try to mimic the ignition curve of a mvt dd on a pvl and you can see the pvl making more power specially after 12k with the same advance
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Post by Lucass2T on Jun 28, 2023 2:47:55 GMT -5
Not sure what you mean there. Im saying you can't linearly link mm's to degrees when figuring out advance or retard. It's universal, no matter which ignition, coil or if your toilet flushes clockwise or anti clockwise. you were comparing the advance from a s6 to a mvt No I wasn't... I think you misunderstood. I was saying you can't say every 1mm measured from btdc equals to a fixed amount of degrees advance. It's not linear.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2023 5:15:27 GMT -5
Been seeing a lot of love given to MVT here on this forum. When does it become worth and/or noticeable to do such an upgrade? Do you only reap the benefits with something high end that revs to the moon our would you see it with a sport kit or even stock-ish setup? I would expect it to work best with at least a midrace kit, and you may have to set the base timing to give it less advance. With stock or sport, you could have a lot of advance in the powerband. When I first installed an MVT it was with my 86cc and a Peace Pipe so it stayed 10-11k and it was a nice improvement for me. The video with details about that and all of my MVT setup info is in the thread below. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/26257/dd06-ignition-info-timing-graphs
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Post by billwill on Jun 28, 2023 5:57:50 GMT -5
Been seeing a lot of love given to MVT here on this forum. When does it become worth and/or noticeable to do such an upgrade? Do you only reap the benefits with something high end that revs to the moon our would you see it with a sport kit or even stock-ish setup? I would expect it to work best with at least a midrace kit, and you may have to set the base timing to give it less advance. With stock or sport, you could have a lot of advance in the powerband. When I first installed an MVT it was with my 86cc and a Peace Pipe so it stayed 10-11k and it was a nice improvement for me. The video with details about that and all of my MVT setup info is in the thread below. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/26257/dd06-ignition-info-timing-graphsHa, I spent some time earlier this morning before you sent this watching that and a couple other of your ignition vids. Good stuff man. The improvement in throttle response is the biggest attraction for me. I guess the street race kit would be considered marginally outside the scope of a build that would benefit from this.
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 74
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Post by tysta on Jun 28, 2023 8:34:25 GMT -5
Been seeing a lot of love given to MVT here on this forum. When does it become worth and/or noticeable to do such an upgrade? Do you only reap the benefits with something high end that revs to the moon our would you see it with a sport kit or even stock-ish setup? I would expect it to work best with at least a midrace kit, and you may have to set the base timing to give it less advance. With stock or sport, you could have a lot of advance in the powerband. When I first installed an MVT it was with my 86cc and a Peace Pipe so it stayed 10-11k and it was a nice improvement for me. The video with details about that and all of my MVT setup info is in the thread below. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/26257/dd06-ignition-info-timing-graphsNo it doesn't that's obvious One big mistake everyone does is to find the tdc JUST with a dial indicator this is so inaccurate
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