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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 16, 2015 22:39:25 GMT -5
I don't know how stiff the Malossi white contra is, but there are others and you do need springs different than the standard ones because the OR pulley is larger and a standard spring is usually tight on the base. The link below has some OR springs. I was using 139QMB springs at times, but they may not fit inside of all clutches. www.g-forcepowersports.com/TorqueSpringsMiniQuad-s/236.htm |
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Post by Lucass2T on Nov 17, 2015 4:24:51 GMT -5
White is slightly stiffer than standard and intended for derestricted and 50cc piped scoots. Yellow is for midrace and Red Full MHR, EVO whatever.
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Post by moofus02 on Nov 28, 2015 13:55:53 GMT -5
I've never been able to get my Stage6 clutch to hook up very well. I have the Polini 2G on my 08 and it really hooks up. I like it so much more even though it's only a 2 shoe clutch. I'll be trying the HIT clutch on my new build. vid of the hit clutch |
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 29, 2015 0:22:40 GMT -5
Leakage  I should have just changed the seal and been done with it, but I could not resist swapping the stock gears out for the 9.3's while I was at it. The gear swap itself went pretty smooth, and I replaced a couple bearings while I was in the gearbox. However as I was putting the CVT back together I found I could not use the Malossi OR rear pulley due to spacing issues with the clutch bell. Using the new 9.3 primary shaft, if I added spacers for the Yamaha bell I am using with the stage 6 clutch, there was only 1 thread showing for the clutch nut, which I promptly stripped the nut trying to tighten it. A different clutch bell may solve the issue but the stock Yamaha bell is the only one I have that fits the stage 6 clutch at the moment. So I could not use the Malossi OR and I did not want to go with a stock rear pulley, so I dug up the BWS 100 torque driver I was testing on the 90cc stuff, and installed it along with the stage 6 clutch and was finally able to get it bolted up. The Malossi belt was already riding up pretty high in the rear pulley, but I spaced out the variator as far as I could so the belt would ride even higher. I am hoping having the belt riding so high will offset the 9.3 gears potentially weak launch, but not kill the top end speed. After resolving a few other self inflicted scooter issues, I was able to get the scoot running so I took a few very short test runs in the cold. So far it seems pretty good on the launch, but I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out about the rest of it. |
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Post by spaz12 on Nov 29, 2015 0:54:59 GMT -5
Always nice to have a lot of parts laying around for moments like these.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 29, 2015 18:47:45 GMT -5
My buddy and I put over 50 miles on the scooters today. I only tried a couple setups between rides, but so far I really like the 9.3 gears. The first setup I tried reved a bit to high 10350, but the launch is surprisingly good and I should be able to get it even better. The middle is still pretty strong, but the top speed is slow (53.5)
I made a few changes, all at the same time but it worked out pretty good. I put heavier rollers in, changed the contra spring from a 1200 on a BB base to a 1500 on a BB base, and changed the slide in the carb to a 30. After the changes it was reving even a littler higher than the first setup but I got some of the top end back (56.8). I need to get even heavier rollers to go with the stiffer contra spring. I am trying to keep the CVT in a low gear for a while to compensate for the tall gears, and so far it is working.
Overall The scoot is running GREAT. The carb is tuned better than it has ever been, throttle response is really nice, and the seat is much more comfortable than the stock seat. It is a blast to ride in its present form, and if I do not find any more top speed I am still very happy with it.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 30, 2015 17:51:08 GMT -5
I tried a couple quick setups today. I ended up with the heaviest rollers I have which are 7 grams. I finally got the RPM down a bit to just over 10K. Top speed I saw was 58.64 mph. I also changed the main jet from a 96 to a 98 because it seemed to be just a bit hot in between the roller changes. I still don't have a CHT gauge, so I  for sure. I am getting all but about 3mm of use of the front pulley. The launch is bearable, definitely not pulling any wheelies though. It still pulls good on the way to WOT. The picture is before the latest setup I have tried.  |
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Post by tsimi on Nov 30, 2015 18:02:23 GMT -5
Your belt sits very nicely on the rear pulley, all the way to the outer edge.
Wish i could get mine that far out too.
You are how heavy? What carb are you using?
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 30, 2015 19:48:42 GMT -5
Your belt sits very nicely on the rear pulley, all the way to the outer edge. Wish i could get mine that far out too. You are how heavy? What carb are you using? I weigh around 300 lbs. I am using a 19 or 21 dellorto or clone, I will have to take a look to know for sure. |
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Post by tsimi on Nov 30, 2015 22:07:18 GMT -5
300 lbs! You are a big dude, almost twice my weight. But you have a good carb inside it. Have you ever let somebody else drive your Scooter? A lighter person i mean.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 30, 2015 22:22:39 GMT -5
300 lbs! You are a big dude, almost twice my weight. But you have a good carb inside it. Have you ever let somebody else drive your Scooter? A lighter person i mean. No one that I personally know around here has the  to ride it WOT long enough to find out. Trust me, I would LOVE to know how fast it will go with a lighweight on it. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Dec 1, 2015 9:20:40 GMT -5
Phew 7 grams and over 10k rpms! My setup does the same but then with 4,4 grams. I still don't fully understand how this can vary that much between setups.
Probably is because of differences in variator ramp angle, torquedriver spline angle and contraspring strenght. I don't think tuning a cvt is difficult but exactly understanding what effects will arise when changing a specific part or a specific parts' property/value. I find CVT workings quite difficult to understand.
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Post by oldgeek on Dec 1, 2015 19:00:10 GMT -5
Phew 7 grams and over 10k rpms! My setup does the same but then with 4,4 grams. I still don't fully understand how this can vary that much between setups. Probably is because of differences in variator ramp angle, torquedriver spline angle and contraspring strenght. I don't think tuning a cvt is difficult but exactly understanding what effects will arise when changing a specific part or a specific parts' property/value. I find CVT workings quite difficult to understand. There does seem to be huge differences in performance possible, even among similarly set up CVT's. IMO the variables involved are mind boggling. One small change can potentially affect so many things, and found gains can be quickly erased, then you pull the cover, and try something else, over and over! I suppose a CVT setup is tailored to rider weight, and preference to an extent. I had time for one setup change and short test ride this afternoon. I was not sure which groove I was using in the torque driver so I pulled it apart to see. The BWS 100 TD I am using has 3 grooves. A stock dual angle style, and 2 straight ones at slightly different angles. It was set up using the 1st straight groove. Since I am trying to delay the move to high gear, I figured I would change to the last, steepest straight groove. On the short test ride GPS showed I lost about 2 MPH from the top end, and RPM's were lower just under 10K. The launch and acceleration did not change according to my unreliable butt dyno. The test ride was unusually short because I started running out of gas on the way back to the shop and had to nurse it back. I want to test this setup again tomorrow after gassing it back up, and also will try some lighter rollers to bring the RPM's back up slightly. |
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Post by tsimi on Dec 1, 2015 19:28:34 GMT -5
THIS! is so true. I let others drive my scooter they are about 20lbs lighter then me and they say my Scooter is a beast at the take off. I on the other hand do not feel at all that way. So this statement of yours is very true.
Here again so true. My butt tells me different then other peoples butts...man this is starting to sound very wrong... anyways, I can very well understand what you mean by that.
I wish they had quick fasteners for the CVT cover to open/close it. It is really a PITA to remove 13 screws all the time just to get access to the CVT area.
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Post by 90GTVert on Dec 1, 2015 21:34:16 GMT -5
I like to watch RPM spread during acceleration and to speed when I switch TD angles. If you still have that action cam, aim it at the tach for your test runs if you have difficulty with this. Sometimes one will do noticeably better at keeping RPM steady, even if RPM is off a bit from where you want it. You could find that one groove will let it rev more and feel stronger, but if you see that one groove will keep RPM more steady it may be worth your time to change roller weight to see if it will outperform the other by keeping RPM stable nearer to peak. CVT tuning is almost always a time consuming process and it gets worse with certain engine combos and as you try to dial it in to a greater degree. Knowing what does what is good, but for most of us there will be no substitute for testing and tuning.
No one ever likes to hear it when they ask for setup info, but there is no 1 setup for any combo that will be what every rider likes IMO. Some people hate a clutch coming in late, some people don't care as long as it hits hard when it does come in. Some want the most crisp response they can get, others are happy with a more smooth and gentle tune. When I got my very first CVT tuning parts for my first scoot, I used to switch contra springs around (didn't have a bunch of rollers). I like the snappy feeling of the stiff contra spring, but I didn't like cruising with it so I'd only use it if I were playing around in town or something and stick with a 1000RPM contra otherwise.
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