Project TaoTao : ATM50-A1 Four-Stroke Experiences & Upgrades

[90GTVert]

My apologies if the light stuff is boring. I know someone will find it interesting at some point though, and it was nasty out yesterday and today, so I might as well play with lights. I'm still quite sad that the xenon 50W doesn't fit well, but I moved on to the tail lights and running light. If you don't like the light posts, hang in there. The next couple should do it other than if I can find a good way for the xenon to work or one like it that fits well.



My next swap was a quick one. I picked up an LED 194 bulb to replace the stock running light. I got it from www.vleds.com and it's 3W like the stock incandescent bulb. It's a projector style.


Here's a look at the stock bulb.


Here's the LED replacement. You get an intense circle of light in the center of the lens vs an even spread with the stock bulb and of course a much whiter light.


Here are pics showing each bulb projecting onto the garage door. Both shot from the same distance and the same camera settings. The top is the stock bulb, bottom is the LED. As you can see, the stock bulb projects hardly any light, while the LED lights up the door.



For the same power, the LED is A LOT brighter. The headlight will easily overpower it, so I can't say you really need the projection of light. It could make life a little easier if the headlight should fail. It may improve your visibility to other drivers as well. It would match the color of some headlight upgrades too.

The LED bulb is far from an essential item, but at $10 for a pair with about 1 minute install time on this style of scooter, it's hard to argue with if you just want a simple appearance mod.

[90GTVert]

LED tail/brake lights are a popular upgrade for scooters. One of the big concerns is power consumption. Since the tail light is often tied into the headlight circuit, using tail light bulb that consumes less power can free up a little extra juice for the headlight. Don't expect a huge change though, because only the tail light is powered by AC on most scooters, and it's about 5W. The brake light can be over 20W, but it should be powered by 12VDC. In the case of this TaoTao the tail and brake filaments are both operated with DC power. An easy way to tell is, if the lights come on with the key on and engine off they are DC. If the lights will not operate without the engine running, they should be AC.

Some quote longevity of LED bulbs as their reason for purchase, since generally LED bulbs can outlast incandescent bulbs. The increased reliability is considered to be a safety feature by some LED users. No matter how bright any bulb is, it can't alert motorists to your actions if it's blown out. LEDs also light up faster, which may give the fellow behind you an extra fraction of a second to react. Others choose LEDs because they like the look of them or believe the LED is brighter. Unfortunately, the brightness of LED bulbs can be disappointing, depending on the bulb you choose. I owned a couple when LED bulbs were just starting to get popular and they were downright unsafe. Whatever the reason you are considering purchasing LEDs, check out the info below before buying.


Here are the bulbs I tried. From left to right, the stock 5/21W bulb, a Sylvania 1157LL (Long Life) replacement, a 27 SMD red LED bulb, a 27 SMD white LED bulb, and finally a 68 SMD red LED bulb. All of the LEDs were sold as replacements for 1157 dual filament bulbs.




I had the 1157LL around, the rest were purchased on eBay. Here's a look at the listings on eBay as well as the packaging (of those that weren't just wrapped in plastic) in case anyone would like to find these bulbs later.



27 SMD red


68 SMD red



Take a look at the bases of the assorted bulbs. You will notice that the 1157LL has smaller contacts. I didn't have any trouble with the fit on the TaoTao, but other scooters I've owned did not work well with the small contacts.




Here is an animation showing all of the bulbs in action. I took a bunch of pics, which I'll post in a more detailed thread eventually, but the images of the light on the garage door tell the story the best.



As you can see, the white LED bulb is the clear loser among the 5 bulbs. Not only was the light output unimpressive, it also looked orange compared to the rest. The orange tint looks much worse in person. It's a very unappealing look, much like what I'd expect if an amber bulb were fitted in the taillight housing. Below are pics showing the 27 SMD white (top) and red (bottom) bulbs to give you a little better view. The pictures still don't show the orange tint as I'd like.






I believe a lot of people choose white bulbs instead of red for our red housings. I did the same thing when I bought my first LEDs. The lens on the tail/brake light housing is designed to filter out non-red light, and white LEDs contain a lot of non-red light that gets filtered out leaving you with a dim appearance. That shows pretty well in the comparisons above. Just so you can see that the white LED does not appear so dim when not filtered, here are shots of the white and red 27 SMD bulbs without the lens fitted.






This will not only apply to red tail/brake light LEDs. If you have an amber lens on your turn signals and wish to use an LED bulb, you should choose an amber bulb for the best results. If the lens is clear, choose an LED color appropriate for the job (red for tail/brake, amber for turn signals).


Back to the comparison of all bulbs, the stock and 1157LL bulbs appear the same to me. Any difference would be very slight. The 27 SMD bulbs are too dim, and don't have a good contrast between tail and brake. The lack of contrast makes it more difficult for other motorists to tell when you're braking. The 68 SMD light is the only one I would consider using of those tested. It works every bit as well as the incandescents for the tail light, and it's pretty close as a brake light. To my eyes, it looks just as bright as any bulb tested, but it has a much deeper or richer red color than the incandescents (as did the 27 SMD bulb).


If nothing else, hopefully I've shown that all LED replacements are not created equal and that color choice can be incredibly important. Also, measure the space you have to fit a bulb before buying. The 68 SMD leaves very little clearance between it's tip and the lens of the TaoTao. If your primary concern is bright lighting at low cost, leave the stock bulb in there.

[creeper]

man you read my mind bro .....I been putting off light upgrade threads now i am glad i did, as i would never got this much of a detailed response lol

I am going to review these past few post n will be following your foot steps on the light upgrades soon as i can, cause i drive a lot at night as well; or early in the morning before sunrise rather.

[90GTVert]

Glad to see someone's actually interested!

Since the rain refuses to let up, I thought I should check under the CVT cover again to see if the seal is still good. Nope. Seeping. Nothing terrible, but I was so ready for the seal stuff to be done. I may end up cleaning it whenever the cover is off (a lot in these projects) and monitoring oil. It's a very very small amount of oil.

[190mech]

We're all watching this thread,sorry for no comments!Ive seen similar results with LED bulbs,some are great,some suck..I guess you will weed them out for us..I installed an HID lamp kit in an airplane last weekend,WoW!is it bright,,any available for scoots at a good price??

[90GTVert]

Parts For Scooters has a kit for $30, but it's out of stock. Not sure it's correct, but it seems like it may be. No idea if it's any good. Not even totally sure it fits. I'd be really happy with the xenon if it just had a base that fit.

www.partsforscooters.com/138-50__HID__Bulb

[2strokd]

Im watchin

Thanks for the details! Ive gotta LED tail bulb in my "Truck"/Kymco that is a few years old and not very bright. Durable, but not too bright.

[flashback30]

I am watching the tread as well, I really haven't messed with bulbs but a good upgrade for sure

[theo547]

I love reading this stuff - keep it coming! Ive put a few HID kits in my scooters and have loved the results. though mine were DC powered and my scoots were all AC so i had to run a power line for the the on\off switch.

[90GTVert]

All of the stuff I see requires a relay and batt power. Not sure I'll even do anything with HIDs or other bulbs at this point. I'd like an on off switch now. I'm so used to my other scoots where I can turn them on and off as I please. That said, it works well enough that I haven't bothered with more wiring. There's enough in there for the gauges.

[rupert]

When I worked on trucks the bulbs used to become loose in the sockets (because the sockets were wearing out) a "quick and dirty" fix was to jam a paper match along side the bulb you were installing to tighten things up.

[90GTVert]

I assume it should be burnt off first? lol

I've been running up and down the road today trying to do a little jetting. I'll update about that eventually. So I wore my helmet cam and had the cam on the scooter earlier today. Went out this time and decided I had enough boring footage to delete and I'd rather wear my old helmet with no cam since I'm sweating like crazy. So I go down the road as usual and some kid in a Cavalier comes out of a side road that's dirt onto the road I'm on without looking. I hit the brakes and swerved and he locked up his brakes (not going that fast, but there's gravel in both roadways there) and we missed each other. Then I'm cursing in my helmet and putting my palm up like "WTF". I go up and turn around as usual and I guess he turned around shortly after too, because I met him on the way back. He waved and I just shook my head. There are crops so it's hard to see on both sides, so obviously the best thing is to totally avoid the stop sign and continue right into the road. It never fails. I can film nothing all day and as soon as I take the cam off something happens. Can't complain too much though, because for a second I thought I was heading to the hospital instead of back here to complain. lol

[moofus02]

Glad you survived the encounter some times it's not so good

Sent from my SPH-L720 using proboards

[flashback30]

glad to see your ok, I feel like sometimes they see scooters and say lets run over them. people pull out in front of me a lot it sucks they need to think

[90GTVert]

I took a ride for the baseline numbers a few nights ago, but just now got the video together and uploaded and I was waiting to put it all up at once.

I rode for a total of 35.7 miles predominantly on open roads, but with some in town riding. Normally I pick a cruise speed and stick to it when I'm not in town. I like to cruise around 40MPH around here, but I can't do that on the TaoTao so I was riding WOT. Wide open cruising ranged from 28 to 34MPH in most conditions, revving 6,500 - 7,000RPM while cruising. Average WOT cruise speed was 32MPH @ 6,700 - 6,800RPM. Even in town where the speed limit is 25 or 30MPH, I was hard on the throttle. Max speed was 37.3MPH @ 7,200RPM, tucked down on a flat stretch of road. It will go faster with even a slight tailwind or decline, and I had it to 40MPH the next day sitting up, but what I'd call my "honest" top speed was 37.3MPH.



I had the GPS with me as well, but I think the trees may have interfered with it a bit. It says I did 39MPH max, but I did not. Even when I pulled up the GPS track log it said 37MPH. I'll likely be using the Trail Tech to report speeds from this point. It's dead on with the GPS and didn't falter when the GPS did.



As you may have noticed in the first image, maximum cylinder head temperature was 379°F. I have seen it get to 390° on one previous ride in similar conditions, but it does fall quickly after throttling back. The highest oil temperature reading I recall was 240°F.

The wideband has been showing rich the whole time I've been riding Project TaoTao. It fluctuates in the 10 and 11:1 zone most of the time. Hard to believe since everyone says these scooters are deadly lean from the factory and must be upjetted immediately or that the carburetor should be tossed directly in the trash. The only change I have made is unsealing the carburetor and adjusting the idle mixture screw during the PDI. There's a sputter when letting off and then getting back into the throttle that seems like rich to me, but again I've heard so many say how lean these scooters are stock so time will tell if the gauge is anywhere near accurate or not.

I refueled 32.5 miles into the trip, using 0.398 gallons of premium. That comes out to 81.7MPG. I've created a Fuelly account for Project TaoTao so anyone can track fuel stats if they'd like.



I went out a couple of days later when the weather was good in the daytime so I could do some 0-30MPH test runs. I've opted to do 4 runs, 2 each way, and average them together for this project's 0-30 times. Hopefully this will allow me to use about any flat road and get more accurate results in varying conditions. The average of four passes was 26.88 seconds from zero to 30MPH.

Let me be very clear on this. I understand that this and other times you will see are very slow. I'm nearly 300 pounds, so it takes some power to accelerate my mass with much fervor. All that matters to me is that we have a set of results to compare over time. This isn't simply about trying to go fast, it's about learning what does and does not work and hopefully speeds, times, and other data will show that over time.

The TaoTao really isn't as bad as I thought it may be. I enjoy riding it. If not for the seal issues and the problem with the front brake at one point, it would be a good scoot so far. Of course to date we're talking 200 miles or less. It's fast enough to break the scooter speed limit here in MD, and even at my size and riding wide open most of the time it did over 80MPG. My biggest issue in stock form is that it's really slow getting off the line, but I suspect it's not bad with a lighter rider. For me, it takes a minute to pick up and start going.

Here's a video update that I put together. The info is going to be redundant to those of you reading here, but it's worth checking out at least the 0-30MPH run at the end so you can compare as the project goes. You can clearly see how weak it is at launch for me.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gELKdsoJcw