Project TaoTao : ATM50-A1 Four-Stroke Experiences & Upgrades

[90GTVert]

Project TaoTao is my new Tao Tao ATM50-A1 powered by a Gy6 50 (1P39QMB). I bought it online from www.familygokarts.com for a grand total of $675 including shipping with lift gate service back in March. It's been sitting in the crate until just recently when I unpacked it and did a thorough PDI and assembly. I did a huge video series during the PDI to share with new scooter owners and to cover topics that may be of interest to many that already own Chinese scooters. Body panel removal and installation, unsealing a stock carburetor, checking wiring and fasteners, first start, idle mixture adjustment, trunk installation, and more. All broken down into 13 parts so you don't have to listen to me go on about things you already know if only one or two things interest you.

Here's a link to the playlist on YouTube with nearly 2 hours worth of videos in 1080p.
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm3-Rt5jsolvEQcIl1CMZGW5Yj_kP4Wjc


Here's a look at the new ride just out of the crate.




The powerhouse. I found the valves to be set at .002" intake and between .0025" and .003" on the exhaust side from China, so i verified that the adjusters were tight and left them at those settings.




This is the engine oil that I drained before ever starting the scooter. 600ml.




The PAIR system went before the first ride.



Removal is pretty simple. I made a video showing that as well. Check it out, but of course remember not to remove the emissions systems on any vehicle that will be used on public roads. (My roads aren't public. The cars you see are all computer generated. )




The new work table got a lot of use during the PDI and other work.




The other mod I did before I ever rode the scoot was another simple one. They ship these scoots with much smaller batteries than they were originally meant to have. That leaves a lot of room in the battery box for the battery to move around. Not only is a vibrating battery annoying to listen to, but it's not good for the battery. I drilled a couple of holes in the battery compartment to route a heavy duty cable tie through and put rags below and on the edges of the battery where it was secured. I would have preferred a heat/chemical resistant foam, but I actually have rags in the garage.






Here are some shots of it in the yard after it's first start and assembly were complete.



(I really like this storage spot. Never owned a scooter with that feature before.)





















Unfortunately, registering the scooter in Maryland and getting my sticker didn't end up as easy as the buying experience was. Nothing terrible, but BS IMO. I emailed the MVA some time ago and made sure I'd have everything I needed in order to get my scoot on the road. I did this before buying actually, so I could ask FamilyGoKarts if they would provide all that MD requests. Here's a quote from a MD MVA employee's email response when I asked exactly what I need to get my scoot on the road...

"You will need to visit a full service MVA branch to transfer ownership of the scooter or mail the documents (certified) to a full service MVA. The assigned Certificate of Origin, Bill of Sale, completed VR-005 Application for Maryland Certificate of Title and VR-337 Application for Title Decal for Mopeds, Motor Scooters, ATVs, Off-Road Motorcycles and Snowmobiles and appropriate fees will be required. The VR-005 and VR-337 are available for printing on our website www.MVA.Maryland.gov. Click on FORMS/Vehicle Registration Forms. "

I got all of that together and filled out, along with proof of insurance. I took the paperwork to my local full service branch of the MVA first thing in the morning last Wednesday to meet a line of 20 people before the doors opened. Once I made it to the counter, I told the lady I needed to title a scooter. She took my paperwork and picked up a phone. Then she informed me that they don't do scooters. I would need to visit a title service or a dealership. Hmmm. OK then. I took my documents to the Honda motorcycle/scooter dealer about 2 miles away.

When I told the saleswoman what I was there for, she told me I should be able to do it at the MVA. I told her what happened. She told me I should send it in then, because they would have to charge me to submit the paperwork, but directed me to an office where I could get it done. I proceeded to the office and the lady there told me basically the same thing, that I should have been able to do it there and she'd have to charge me. I didn't see a point in arguing with the local branch about what they may or may not be able to do or sending the paperwork in with the possibility of it being sent back 2 weeks later with no progress. I told her to go ahead and process it if she could. 15 minutes later, I had a sticker in my hand and a bill for $155. I would have only had to pay the MVA $65 in fees and taxes... assuming anyone ever would have cooperated and let me submit it. At least it was done.


I took PTT on it's maiden voyage a few nights ago. I wasn't looking to do much more than see what this little 4T is all about and how it does out of the box. I spent a little time accelerating and decelerating for a bit of break-in, but honestly I'm not used to scoots that don't do 50MPH+ anymore and I spent a lot of time at WOT or very near it. At one point I looked down to see 30MPH on the GPS and thought, "I need to speed up". Then I went to give it more gas and realized I was already wide open. I'm 290 pounds, so hauling me around is no easy task for a little four-stroke. It managed better than 30MPH WOT cruising though, usually staying around 30-33MPH. The most I saw was 35MPH, but I wasn't trying for top speed. That was just on slight declines or with the help of the breeze blowing that evening.


I made a bracket for my GPS that positioned it right beside the speedometer so I could try to get some pics of the two for everyone to compare. Unfortunately, I found it hard to get good pics while riding. I took a bunch and a bunch were really blurry. Below is one shot, although the angle changes the look of the needle position ever so slightly.



I took notes of where the GPS and speedo compared though, and the stock speedometer is about 12% optimistic vs the GPS from my observations. That means if I could actually peg the stock speedo at 50MPH (which I can't), I'd really be doing 44MPH.


Off the line acceleration is really bad with me on it. It's actually a little scary crossing the 50MPH roads around me when there's much traffic, just hoping I can make it in time and pushing off with my foot. Again though, I"m very heavy. I have a feeling it wouldn't be bad with a light or average weight rider.


Something's definitely not right in the carburetor tune, but it ran basically OK. I think the main jet is off, because it just doesn't feel right at WOT for lack of a better description. It also has a sputter at times when I'm on and off of the throttle. The stock setup is a 79 main, 32 pilot, and a non-adjustable needle. I'll get to those later, and I'm curious to find out if the stock carb that I've unsealed will allow proper adjustment with jet swaps and washers under the needle or if I'll be unpacking the Keihin I have on standby.


Here's a quick vid from the first ride, with a little 0-30MPH run for fun.




The odometer showed that I racked up 29.5 units on the ride, while the GPS showed 18 miles traveled. The GPS doesn't tell the exact mileage without me downloading and opening a GPX file, but the odometer seems to be more accurate than the speedometer if we assume it's intended to be in kilometers (as I'd think since KPH numbers are the predominant ones). Seems like the odometer is off by only a few percent, while the speedometer is off by more than 10%. I would have expected them to be the same.

[90GTVert]

Forgot to mention I also added a Prima magnetic drain plug kit when I changed the fluids the first time. I read some arguments elsewhere that these are pointless, because so much of the scooter's engine is not magnetic. My though is, OK... but wouldn't you want to catch as much as you can of anything that is magnetic. The kit was $15 shipped IIRC from Enviromoto. That's pretty cheap peace of mind IMO.

[ososlow]

nice, i remember back in the days of project hustler, your scooter was the 4t to have. shame they dont come with the 70s any more

[90GTVert]

The next step is to try to add better instrumentation to the TaoTao.



I got a cheap oil temp gauge off of eBay. Combined with the 2 gauge pods in the pic, it was under $40. The gauge pods turned out to be junk IMO. They offer no real securing method for the gauges. They are setup so you'd have to push the whole gauge in and it's a lousy interference fit. On top of that, they have 2 tiny little screws to mount the pod to something that I wouldn't trust much at all. Hopefully the gauge works out better.

The Stinger package is a voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter and also has a USB port for charging. I've got a 12V outlet to go with it.

I got the TrailTech Vapor kit as an oben box special for $70 shipped. It's does speed, RPM, one temp input, and ambient air temp. Hoping to use the temp input for cylinder head temp.

On the right is an AutoMeter wideband setup. It was in my Mustang, but I saved it for this project when I sold off everything else.


I started out by trying to figure out where the gauges would mount. First I took out the stock cluster and thought perhaps I could put the Vapor in there under the clear plastic. It could have worked, but I would have had to cut the plastic open anyway to access the buttons on the Vapor, so I went with a different idea. I had some 1/4" ABS around so I cut it to fit under the panel that held the cluster. I used what Plastic Welder I had to glue it up and after that cured I added some other 2 part epoxy that I had around. It looks a mess under there, but it seems pretty sturdy. Hoping it works out so it's clean without screws or rivets or whatever. I got the LED indicators for about $10 total online. The green on the left and right are for the turn signals, blue is high beam indicator.




Here's the oil temp gauge mounted temporarily. I was surprised that there's enough room for the gauge in there, but the way the handlebars curve down it works. I used a 2" PVC pipe with a little grinding inside so the gauge would fit to make an adapter to angle the gauge up. You can buy them from gauge companies, but this way is free if you've got some PVC around and it takes 15 minutes (much less if you have pipe that doesn't need the ID increased). Without the adapter it was a little tough to see the gauge. I'd still need to lean back a bit, but no big deal.




I planned to use the gauge pods I had to mount the wideband meter somewhere, but as I mentioned they weren't so great. I ordered an AutoMeter pod so at least I know it will be sturdy. Should be here this week.


I wanted to do an oil change after the first ride anyway and I needed to get the side cover off in hopes of mounting the oil temp sender in there. Here's a look at the oil beside fresh oil, after 18-19 miles total.




Here's the drain plug with plenty of dark debris.




Drain plug with some of the debris wiped off. Sprayed it with brake cleaner to get the stuff in the recess.




This was stuck to the spring on the plug/filter on the other side of the engine.




This is what I wiped off of that plug. The filter (screen) was clean, at least of anything I could see.




Before I removed the exhaust to access the side cover easier, I marked it about where the o2 would fit best on the scoot. There really isn't much choice unless the sensor was stuck out the side or mounted from underneath. It's best to keep the sensor between about 10 and 2 o'clock though.




Check out the awesome factory weld, blocking a good portion of the header.




A carbide burr made quick work of it.




There was a nice spot in the corner of the cover for the oil temp sensor so I drilled and tapped it for 1/8" NPT and used some teflon tape on the threads to hopefully keep it sealed.




The only issue here is that there's just enough room to fit my finger between the center stand when it's up and the sensor. I'll have to be careful with the wire routing when I get that far.




Next, I moved on to mounting the o2. The area I had marked on the pipe turned out to be 11.5" from the exhaust port at the farthest point, so I went with that as the mounting location. I've heard different numbers for widebands on single cylinder engines. I've heard from 6" to 20". I've heard some say keeping the sensor on the closer side may improve accuracy on small single cylinders. I definitely couldn't use a bung with just room for the threads or I'd block pretty much the whole pipe off.




I used a long bung to keep the pipe clear. I did round out the bung where it would mount a bit to make it curve around a little more, so it'll protrude just a tad more than what you see here.




Felt like I was cutting half of the pipe away.




I know I'm not a good welder, but it works.






I put a stick on temp monitor on the CVT cover. Could be interesting. I really don't know how hot CVT covers tend to be. I just know they can be plenty hot enough to make you move your hand quickly.




I haven't done any wiring for any gauges yet and I still have more sensors to mount.


I ditched the seat latch. The thing annoys me. I'm used to my other scoots without them and I don't like having to shut the scooter off to release it. I'm forgetful for one, so I started the scooter up for the first ride and then had to put something else under the seat. Closed it. Started the engine again. Realized I forgot something else. I know it's a security feature, but I don't really park my scoots anywhere other than the garage often.




I told creeper I'd check a seal size behind the clutch for him. He said he has gear oil under the cover and doesn't have the means to remove the clutch yet to check the seal size. I popped off my CVT cover and I seem to have an oil problem myself.




The oil collects by the clutch since the engine sits at an angle, but you can see up front that there's oil splattered around and the crankshaft seal is leaking engine oil.




This turned into more fun than I expected. First, I went to poke the stock seal with a pick and it slid back behind the area where the seal should sit, which made it really fun to get out. I thought, "wow, they put some junk seals in this thing". I had a seal kit around, because I prefer to be at least a little prepared for this stuff if possible. So I smeared a tiny bit of grease on the inside diameter of the seal and sat it on the crank. I had read John and Robert talking about using PVC pipe to install seals. I've always tapped them in with a blunt object and a hammer, so I wanted to try this new method. I pushed the seal in and all the way in. I was expecting to have to tap it for it to seat. No. Once I pushed just hard enough to start it, it went past the seating and up against the crank gear. I had to stab it to pull it out, so now I'm seal-less.

Maybe this is what the pipe trick does, makes it way easier to drive (slide in this case) in a seal? Considering the first moved easy and this one went right past where it should without much effort or one tap, I'm kinda worried that the case/seal clearance is larger than it should be. I've got new seals on order from 2 different spots, just in case one works better. I guess I'll apply a coat of ThreeBond to the outer lip of the seal and be gentle with it when installing and/or use a pipe that won't let me push past the edge of the crankcase.

Is this something others have experienced? I don't recall it being so easy with my old SunL, but I only did the crank seals one time and it has been years. I've never had the crank or other shaft seals on any of my 2Ts do this. Of course I've never used a pipe to install them, but then they don't pop into the engine or gearbox when I stick them with a pick either. The crank seals on the 2Ts actually take a bit of tapping just to seat properly.


While I was there, I opened the variator. I was disappointed to see that 18-19 miles of riding have lead to signs of flat spots starting. I can feel a little flatness, just barely, on a few. My newest scoot beside this one is 5 years old, but all of my others have had good rollers stock. The rollers in my Tritons took a long time to wear. I even said my old SunL was junk and I think I still have the stock rollers from it somewhere in good shape. Not sure if this is new practice or perhaps just different factories.




One bit of good news is that they are 5g, which is what a lot of folks choose for performance. Not sure how good that news really is though, since it looks like the stock rollers won't have a long life in good form.

[creeper]

man i luv your project posts so detailed & this is one i get to see from the start not have to catch up on reading LOL .......
so did you get the id/od of the seal behind the clutch & the seal crankshaft seal? Those tao are damn near exact to the peace i have .....my neighbors is anyways .

I will just order both the crankshaft seal & thhe seal behind the clutch just in case so i have both on hand if you got the measurements...........THX

[90GTVert]

I sent you a PM I thought last night. If not, someone else has a PM about seal sizes for no reason. lol

Should be 19.8x30x6 on the crank and 17x30x5 on the drive shaft.

[creeper]

thx bro yeah i got the pm .....It just didnt show i had a new message in the lil pop up like normal so i never checked it

[90GTVert]

Couldn't get much done today, but I did at least get the speedometer magnet and pickup worked out. I started out by drilling a hole in the rotor for the magnet, but the rotor was maybe .5mm or so too thick for it to work that way. Had to use a larger bit to sorta countersink it.






I was lucky enough to have a bracket with 2 bends very close to what I needed in it from an old shifter. Cut it down to size and tweaked the bends just a bit. Drilled a couple of holes and painted. Worked out pretty well.

[dude]

Are 4stk's scooters worthy of the color black? LOL

[90GTVert]

I was just happy I actually got it. Last time I ordered a Chinese bike online they made me choose the color I wanted and then my second choice. Of course I chose black first, then yellow. I wasn't thrilled when my black and silver bike was yellow and white when it arrived. At least FamilyGoKarts lets you choose the option to say it must be this color or you can choose a backup if you'd like.

[90GTVert]

Oh how I love wiring.




Wired the Trail Tech's RPM lead into the black/yellow coil wire instead of wrapping it around the plug wire. Seems like this will be the easier way in the long run so I don't have to bother with it again.




CHT thermocouple (10mm).





The replacement seals came from Parts For Scooters while I was working on the gauges. I used some threebond around the outer lip and pushed it in with a piece of PVC pipe large enough that I really couldn't pop it into the case. It still went in easy, but there was more resistance than last time. Could just be the ThreeBond, could be the different seal? I wiped off the case and hopefully I won't be seeing more oil splatters.





The seal gave me a little break from wires and solder and crimping and rejuvenated me enough that I finished up the gauges mostly.




Trail Tech Vapor. Should do speed and odo/trip odo functions, RPM on the bar and numerical, ambient temp, and CHT. The CHT is on the upper left and you can see it reading ---. I hope it just needs to be hotter. I did extend the wires myself instead of buying a Trail Tech extension. I have a spare thermocouple (I broke a few Koso brand thermocouples on my 2Ts so I figured I better get a spare for this just in case.) Hooked the spare up and heated it with a torch and I never saw it do anything till nearly 200F. I've also read others saying these things fail a lot from Trail Tech. Kinda sucks. I thought the issue was just with the TTO series, but farther investigation shows otherwise.




More issues. The right turn indicator and high beam indicator work fine. The left does not. I have power and ground to it. I seem to have got a dud light.




Oil temp gauge. Doesn't start registering till over 104F. Highest I've seen is in the 170s, just idling in the garage for a bit.




12V outlet and a plug in voltmeter that also has a USB port. That way I can read the V and run a GPS or whatever at the same time.




AutoMeter wideband. It responds the correct way if I move the mixture screw and seems to be reasonable from what I can tell so far. I set the idle mixture back to where it was before having the gauge. I think it may be interesting to see how it does just as it was tuned in a PDI with only an idle mixture adjustment w/o the benefit of any gauges.




I still need to calibrate the speedometer. Haven't tried at all yet. I looked at the instructions (good timing after installing the thing, right?) and they say not to mount the sensor as I did, but rather I'd need to flip the sensor so it's perpendicular to the ground for it to work right with my magnet location. I'm gonna try it as is first. No sense in fixing it if it works. Doubt I'll get that lucky, but we'll see.

Really hoping the CHT starts working so I don't have to buy more stuff in hopes that it works. If it doesn't work I'll be getting their extension instead of soldering wire in.

All in all the Vapor install hasn't been too terrible considering it's a kit for a Honda XR250 IIRC that just happened to be cheap in an open box.

[oldunclestevo]

That looks awesome!

[90GTVert]

Thanks.


I measured my tire at roughly 17" diameter, so converted to mm, then circumference and came up with 1,357. Entered that into the Vapor and went for a quick ride. I saw the speedo was about 1MPH fast vs the GPS. Vapor said 6.7 miles, GPS said 6.55. Did the math, came up with 1,327. Entered that and took another quick ride. The GPS and speedo are right with each other on MPH. Trail Tech says 6.8, GPS says 6.83. Should be done with that.

After roughly 14 miles of riding, I thought I might as well check the seal to see how it's doing.

Not so good...



Looks OK on the outside where the ThreeBond is, leaking in the center.

[ryan]

O had 2 taotaos of my own that i gave away brcause they had leaking seals. I either had to keep it half full with heavy weight oil or all the way full with 15w_40. If you replace the inside seal again measure the ID of the case to see if warpage or irregulatities

[190mech]

Verrry interesting!Thanks for the great write ups again!Excessive crankcase pressure will cause seal leaks,how about the case breather?