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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 22, 2013 6:07:56 GMT -5
I've had the other side apart and that area is clean as can be, so it's only blowing 1 seal if that's the case. I'll open up the airbox and pop off the valve cover though just to be sure that's all clear and see if there's any oil in the airbox. I'll also try to measure the crank and case, but I'm not sure how well I can do that. Using 750ml of 15W40.
Also forgot to mention the Vapor never did pick up the CHT probe, even with the oil temp registering just above 210F by the end of the ride.
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Post by 190mech on Jun 22, 2013 6:41:24 GMT -5
No bearing play on that side?Ive shortened the little circular 'gripper' spring on the inner seal lip a few mm's many times before to cure a pesky seal drool..
Is the CHT probe a 2 wire unit?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 22, 2013 7:19:40 GMT -5
So far all I've checked is that the airbox is clean and dry and air moves freely through the valve cover. Haven't got the seal out yet or anything else cause I had to get ready to go help a friend with some moving.
Never would have thought of messing with that spring. I'll look into it on the new one when I get there.
The CHT is a 2 wire.
Thank for the info/suggestions/advice.
Sounds like the seal info may be good info for many new TaoTao and clone owners. Also had a guy on YouTube tell me he's had 5 TaoTaos and they all had bad flat spots on the rollers within the first couple hundred miles. I'm disappointed. One person gets 25MPH, another does 45MPH, seals leak, rollers flat spot, carbs are sealed, and then the other typical issues like damaged threads, poor plastics quality, etc.. that I see on all of my scoots. It's very easy to see why these things can go for under $700 shipped and why some people hate them so much.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 22, 2013 16:11:16 GMT -5
I cut 3/4" off of the spring inside the new seal and installed the seal with ThreeBond on the outer lip. I tried to get measurements before, but I really can't get anything accurate with what I have as long as the crank is in place. The crank feels solid.
I took the CHT probe off of the spark plug, heated it with a propane torch, then held buttons to tell the Vapor to look for a sensor. Both warning lights lit up and it read 500 something degrees. I watched as it cooled and went to 100F before reading ---. Hopefully now it knows there's a sensor there and it will work, but I'm not that optimistic.
I'm hoping to get a little ride in tonight to see if the CHT works and most importantly if the seal seals.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 22, 2013 21:48:22 GMT -5
I rode about 15 miles tonight. The CHT didn't register on it's own. About halfway through the ride I hit the buttons to make it search for a sensor and it came up 274F then down to 159 and then ---. Got home and did the same thing just after I shut it off and it said 275 and actually went down slowly. I love the Vapor itself. Very well lit and easy to read day or night. Just wish the CHT wasn't screwy.
Popped the CVT cover and variator and, sure enough, it's leaking AGAIN! I'm running out of options short of replacing the case section or possibly the crank. New seal failed. new seal and ThreeBond failed. New seal and ThreeBond and tightening the spring failed. I've installed the drive face and drive boss so I can clearly see the crank and seal when it runs and it doesn't appear to be wobbling or anything strange to the naked eye. Could be too thin where the seal sits I suppose. I'd guess case issue, but of course that's nothing more than a guess.
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Post by dude on Jun 22, 2013 22:42:09 GMT -5
I have been fighting a crank seal leak on a friends 63cc becaused they over filled the oil. Tried 2 different seals no luck. Split the case polished the crank where the seal goes then installed a 72cc kit still leaks. Maybe a decompression tube to the dipstick? I know its not a answer for a stock scoot.
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Post by 190mech on Jun 23, 2013 4:47:54 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2013 6:01:56 GMT -5
Dude, just don't get any of the kits that hook from the dipstick to vacuum. Seems like everyone ends up with frothy oil with those. I actually tried the 17x30 seal from the driveshaft last night, but it won't go on for me without folding. I kinda wanna try a different seal, but I also wanna get this over with. Crankcase seems like a more sure bet to me, but then that's $70 or so vs a $10 seal. I can deal with the time and money for the case swap if it works. Kinda worries me that a bunch of ppl have leaks there though. Hmmm.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2013 7:49:25 GMT -5
I've been out playing with seals and such. I was gonna measure a 2T seal that fits well vs these that don't, just to see if it gave any clues... since I really never put enough thought into seals before to have any idea what kind of interference or whatever they should have. When I picked up a 20x28 2T seal, I immediately noticed that the 28mm OD seal is as big as the 30mm seal for the 4T.  Then I thought, "please let this thing have a smaller ID too", since it's a better quality seal to my sight and feel. The rubber really does feel better on the 2T seal, plus it's got the lip to make it seat properly with ease.   Sadly, the ID is indeed larger on the 2T crank seal.  I went on to take measurements of different bits of the 2T and 4T parts to see if that helped at all. The seal ID is kinda tricky to me because it's delicate. What I did was to measure the ID just barely touching the center with the lightest pressure I could. Then I measured the ID pushing to spread the seal till it stopped with reasonable pressure. I averaged the two measurements for what you see below as Seal I.D..
| Seal I.D.
| Seal O.D.
| Crank O.D.
| Case I.D.
| Crank/Seal Diff
| Case/Seal Diff
| 1P39QMB
19.8x30
| 19.5mm | 30mm | 19.9mm | 29.9mm | 0.4mm
| 0.1mm
| 1E40QMB
20x28
| 20.1mm | 30.15mm | 19.95mm | 29.8mm | 0.15
| 0.35mm
|
So I'm not sure the numbers say as much as I would have hoped. What I do know is that even with the difference seeming close, the 4T seal is sliding into the case way easier than I think it should, which is what I said from the start about just popping seals in without effort. |
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Post by creeper on Jun 23, 2013 9:10:37 GMT -5
interesting, umm if the seal was smaller then what it is sealing , even by that much, isn't that like manufacturing a product designed to fail? you are speaking of about half a mm diff.
I mean to plug a 3mm hole in a damn you need a 3mm plug not a 2.6 plug......or am i reading everything wrong?
wouldn't it be better in the case of seals to error just on this larger side instead of small?
Of course i kno you do not make the seals trying to wrap my head around this whole seal thing
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2013 9:41:42 GMT -5
The 4T seal is .1mm larger than the hole it plugs. It's .3mm smaller than the crank it fits around... although again I don't have much confidence in my seal ID measurements. The main issue to me seems like the seal will slide into the case a bit too easy. The crank doesn't feel so bad going over it. I don't know if my case is actually any larger than any other 4T or if the crank is any smaller or what. I've used enough seals by now (also from different places) I would say I can eliminate them as the cause. I wish I could find a seal like the 2T seal's design, but just a touch larger OD and smaller ID.
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Post by creeper on Jun 23, 2013 10:29:38 GMT -5
if you find seals like you are looking for post it so i can get a few instock for myself as well LOL
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Post by kevin55950 on Jun 23, 2013 11:32:42 GMT -5
Remembers me the Stage6 R/T crankshaft that were leaking from seal and becoming loose in the bearing because of too small crankshaft diameter (where bearing and seal sits)...
Ask carlos at autotech355 he might have something for you. He can get a lot of stuff on demand.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2013 12:12:14 GMT -5
I just ordered a few seals to see if they are of any use. Between what I've already used, am buying, and shipping charges, I've got a small fortune into seals. 19x31x5 www.ebay.com/itm/15048771976619x30x7 www.ebay.com/itm/15048771972318x30x7 www.ebay.com/itm/160475503586Creeper, lemme see what works for me so you can make a more educated guess at what may work on yours if the standard seal doesn't. If all of this isn't enough fun, the driveshaft seal look like it's a little oily now. I've got like 40 miles on the engine though. I guess it's time to expect serious issues.  |
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Post by 190mech on Jun 23, 2013 15:34:29 GMT -5
The 19x31x5 will likely be a good fix,the OD of the seal can be filed/sanded/ground a bit to make it fit.We used to use Suzuki fork seals in our Spanish MX bikes as they were super quality with teflon sealing lips,the OD was bigger so we'd just carefully belt sand the OD,always worked well!
PS,What is the crankshaft OD where the seal rides??
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