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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2013 10:13:35 GMT -5
I've had seal leaks before on 2T scoots. Crank and driveshaft seals. The difference there is they all went as they should. Seal leaked. I removed it and cleaned the surfaces. Installed the new seal. Problem solved. I've done the same with other engines as well. This is the first time I've replaced one, and another, and another, and used sealant, and cut the spring so it's tighter... and still the seal doesn't seal.
I do know what you mean I believe. If it says 28 it should be 28, not 30. I dunno why things are like that.
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Post by creeper on Jun 27, 2013 22:37:06 GMT -5
on a different matter & a beginer question lol....
1) whats the name/model of that stinger unit?
2) how & to what did you wire the 12v outlet to for power
also
did you have to sacrifice a fuel gauge for the trail tech unit? How tedious was the wiring? LOL
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2013 23:45:29 GMT -5
Here's the Stinger volt meter / USB charging jack... www.ebay.com/itm/STINGER-SGP12-DIGITAL-VOLTAGE-METER-USB-CHARGER-12-VOLT-PLUG-BATTERY-MONITOR-/251096526376I used a 12AWG wire with a fuse inline for power for everything. The Trail Tech advises having always on power. Everything else goes through a relay so it switches on with the key. I used the wire that did power gauge lights to trigger the relay. Ground for everything stems from a 12AWG wire to ground. 12V Outlet uses only power from the relay and ground. Trail Tech Vapor uses batt power and ground. The tach input has one wire to ground and the other to the black/yellow coil wire. The CHT input uses a 10mm thermocouple and 2 wires that I extended, but Trail Tech says you should buy their extensions. The speedometer pickup is all one piece that plugs into the vapor. The oil temp gauge uses power and ground and one wire that leads to the sensor mounted in the case. The wideband uses power and ground and then a group of wires that lead to the sensor in the exhaust. Indicators use the same power and ground wires that powered the old indicators in the cluster. I did give up the fuel level gauge. I don't use a fuel level gauge on any of my scooters. I just play it safe on fill ups and note mileage at first. Then I start using the odometer or trip odometer as a sort of fuel gauge. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2013 23:55:56 GMT -5
All of the seals I ordered came in. 18x30x7, 19x30x7, 19x30x5, 19x31x5. Stock again was 19.8x30x5. All of the 30mm OD seals are 30-30.1mm OD. The 31mm seal is 31.1mm OD. The 18x30x7 doesn't want to go over the crank without folding. The 19x31x5 won't go into the cases. I sanded it to 30.7mm and it still didn't wanna go. I used a 19x30x7, hoping perhaps the extra depth would help. It fit snug. Better than the stock seal. Actually needed to be tapped in. I used ThreeBond on the OD anyway.  Went for about a 15 mile ride. Came back and checked, only to see it's seeping. No puddles like the others, but still sucks. It looks like the crank is tearing up the seal a bit. The strange part is that the seal looked fine after I removed it. The crank feels smooth, but I can see marks. Maybe I need to polish it where the seal rides?   |
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Post by moofus02 on Jun 28, 2013 0:57:25 GMT -5
Maybe you could find a speedy sleeve that wound fit? Would give you a new surface for the seal to ride on and tighten up the clearance
Sent from my SPH-L720 using proboards
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Post by 190mech on Jun 28, 2013 5:40:09 GMT -5
What about polishing the shaft with some 600 grit paper,be nice to run the engine while polishing,maybe a drill with socket on the flywheel nut?You are packing the inner seal lip with high temp grease?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2013 5:48:55 GMT -5
I'm putting Royal Purple multi-purpose grease in there. At first I thought that's what the dark splatters were, but it seems to be seal material. I'm also leaning toward polishing the sealing surface on the crank vs a $30 sleeve... www.ebay.com/itm/CR-SPEEDI-SLEEVE-99080-SKF-NEW-782-SEAL-DIA-/221103074547I thought about trying to polish the crank without removing it, but didn't like the idea of getting the crap in the engine too much. I'll prob do it anyway and spray it out with brake cleaner and change the oil. |
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Post by 190mech on Jun 28, 2013 9:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah,I'd do it installed,oil the sandpaper to keep particles from dropping off.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2013 11:55:06 GMT -5
Had it done before that was posted, so I used WD-40. Just a drop basically. I seemed to end up with debris in the sandpaper anyway. I considered grease or oil, but I guess WD-40 just happened to be right beside me at the time. Here's a look at it before I started. Even though it looks really prominent, I couldn't feel any of the stuff you can see. Can't reach the stuff farther back to tell. There's some little pitting and lines farther back where I don't think the seals even ride. Stock one's wouldn't at least. I think some of it's pitting and then the lines are prob from me trying the get the first seal out that I pushed all the way into the engine. The light colored line you can see close to the outer edge is actually a reflection of the case or light or something. It shows up in the after pic as well, but there's nothing there.  You could do the job easier with two people, but I wanted to get it done and I don't think granny would appreciate being wheeled into the heat and told to "hold this sandpaper and watch your hands". lol I folded the sandpaper up until is was snug enough to hold still, put just a tiny bit of WD-40 on the crank, and turned the drill. I hit it for a second and checked. As long as it held, which really was never an issue, I held it for about 30 second bursts. Kept switching the paper to clean spots and repeating. I started with 400 grit, then a scotchbrite sanding pad that seems to fall somewhere between 400-600 grit, and then moved to 600 grit. It's still got the stuff in the back I mentioned. You can see it if you look about where it's reflecting the cam chain. Looks very smooth otherwise.  Hopefully I can get a ride in tonight to see if the seals gonna work. If not, it shouldn't be a problem tomorrow. Here's what I'm using now for the seals BTW. I believe it's 1" PVC pipe, cut a little longer than the crank sticks out. The 1" pipe is just large enough that I can't push the seal in if it's all aligned straight. Then I ground down a fitting from I think it's 3/4" PVC and drove that into one end. It will fit around the crank and inside the case. This way I can start with the large and and don't have to be worried about pushing right into the case if a seal is more loose than I think. Then I flip it around to the smaller side to seat the seal past the bevel in the case. I sanded the end of each so they are rounded off and won't damage seals.  Changed the oil once I was done with that. 64 miles total now (seems like more with all the seals). The drain plug had less metal on it this time than when I changed it 19 miles in. Wasn't much of anything on the screen side.  Figured I'd do the gear oil while I was at it. Plenty of stuff on the drain plug. The magnet is recessed just a bit and magnetic debris was past the end of the bolt. The gear oil itself looked pretty good. I really think these are a good $15 investment. Can't swear that I'm really saving any damage, but I'm much happier with metal shavings stuck to the plugs that circulating through bearings.  The top end off of a TaoTao popped into my eBay recommendations. Said it had around 1,000 miles on it and was only replaced for a big bore. For $15 total shipped, it could come in handy at some point. Actually looks good as described.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2013 12:03:59 GMT -5
Also, forgot to update on the CHT oddness I spoke of at some point. When I started the scooter for a ride last night, it came on by the time I had my gear on at 150F or so. "Sweet, I won't have to mess with it!" Wrong. It was back to --- by the time I was out of the driveway. Came on randomly or sometimes with me hitting the buttons to make it search for a sensor. Even then, it would jump around. Big jumps... like 150 and then up to 250 and then 175 and then 250. I've got a 4ft extension here from Trail Tech. I also got the small CHT they sell, because it's $2 more than the 10mm thermocouple alone. I figured it's worth $2 just to use it to help test if it's the Vapor or the wire or the thermocouple being weird.
I'll prob try it just with the scoot running first. I'm not gonna go routing wires if it doesn't do any better with the Trail Tech extension.
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Post by creeper on Jun 28, 2013 13:16:37 GMT -5
damn man you are scraing me with the seals lol
i hope it works this time bro
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Post by 190mech on Jun 28, 2013 18:53:26 GMT -5
Shaft finish looks much better!!CHT and EGT's are sometimes very picky about lead polarity,length,extension wire type,etc.Some designs dont seem to care..Dont know the Vapor design,might be a fun side trip to see what makes it work...
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 28, 2013 20:19:26 GMT -5
The TT CHT came in the mail today and when I opened the shipping box I could see it said 94 degrees. That's the gauge and thermocouple, no extensions. Works great. It's still showing temp now. There is potential for it to work anyway. I'm just hoping it can work with the Vapor. I guess the Vapor needs to have a threshold though, since it is backlit and hooked to batt power without ign switiching and stays on as long as it's getting a signal from something other than the ambient temp sensor built in.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 29, 2013 8:12:10 GMT -5
I got up and went for a 20 mile ride after the rain stopped. Came back and checked the seal...    This is a 19x30x7. I measured the seal and it seems the first lip begins just shy of 6mm deep, from the face. Then I measured the race or whatever where the seal seats. From the face it measures 6mm deep. There's a bevel as well, and I push the seal in to the edge of that, so I think the 7mm seal would actually be putting the first lip at least partially out of the range of the race or outer diameter. I don't actually see why it would matter, because the way the seal is constructed it's not solid there anyway. I'm running out of options though, and since i had one, I stuck a 19x30x5 in there. Maybe it'll sit on a different area of the crank if nothing else. I'll go blow it later today most likely. It slid right in with my fingers. I was just trying to seat it and it slid right into position. I double checked that I didn't have another stock seal (19.8x30x5), but I did indeed have the 19. There's only .1mm OD difference in the 7mm and 5mm seal. Not sure about the actual ID. I thought about moving up to the stock seal again, with the polished crank, but it's not tearing up the 19mm seals so I don't really see why that would be better. When this blows, I guess then I'm down to either exploring crankcase ventilation farther or taking it apart and replacing the big case half and/or the crank. I know the case has some knicks and crap from me digging out seals, but they are all up top and it always seems to be leaking from the center. I can't measure well enough with it together to have any idea if the hole is actually round and not warped. |
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Post by creeper on Jun 29, 2013 12:38:35 GMT -5
man i am just not going to deal with my seal leak lol when i win fox's impact wrench I will be able to tell which one it is but I mean damn bro .....I would go crazy if this happens in my case ! i not sure i want to even try mine  good news isa i been constantly checking my oil & no oil loss have i seen , so i am assuming that mine is the one behind the clutch instead of the crank seal......which has caused me to change my gear oil change intervals to 300miles before a change.....which i can put on it in a week n a half lol. |
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