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Post by oldgeek on Nov 22, 2014 22:24:25 GMT -5
Let me clarify, Dont spray copper on the head in the chamber portion, ya know what I mean?
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 22, 2014 22:28:40 GMT -5
Let me clarify, Dont spray copper on the head in the chamber portion, ya know what I mean?  |
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Post by niz76 on Nov 22, 2014 23:35:09 GMT -5
Let me clarify, Dont spray copper on the head in the chamber portion, ya know what I mean?  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 23, 2014 8:21:40 GMT -5
I keep old caps around that match up near common bore sizes for easy masking.  |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 9:58:04 GMT -5
I keep old caps around that match up near common bore sizes for easy masking. That's a damn good idea! I just took the head off to check and see how far up the piston comes. The edges are't flush, but the dome is higher and it looks like I'm safer to keep the head gasket on. I resprayed the copper and just wiped off the combustion chamber with a rag I sprayed some brake cleaner on. Torqued it and now working on the clutch and contra springs. Had to come back and check your post on taking apart the torque driver. I'm going to re-grease it all since I have it apart. Oh and damn you for having hose clamp pliers lol. These springs are kicking my ass. But I got them in! |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 11:26:58 GMT -5
So I put the contra and clutch springs in. Not sure if I can tell the difference yet, it def gets higher RPM before it takes off though so I guess that was the point. I changed the jet to a 95, when I took the plug out it looked rather dry and not so dark. I may throw in a #100 still and see how that works. I pulled the head, resprayed it RIGHT this time and put it back on. Ran it for a few min to warm up, let it cool and re torqued the bolts to 15ftlbs. I threw in some 6g sliders, I think I need heavier though. It feels like it's not pulling the belt out all the way. The heaviest I have are 8g sliders, I do have some 9g rollers though so I could always try those too. Oh I put the pod back on, but this time I cut away part of a side for proper air movement. It's more of a guard from the rear tire now. I took it for a ride. Umm.. Holy  . First time I was actually nervous in pulling WOT for too long. I got to 50.2 mph and my RPMS approached almost 10k. That was with a wind at my back though, in the wind I got to 35mph and RPM stayed at ~8k and it wouldn't go any further. So yeah I'm thinking heavier weights in this pig. But jesus, over 9k RPM and 50mph? I still think I'm having carb/air/fuel issues though. The damn thing stalled out on me twice as soon as I stopped. It started right up though, but still. I can't think of wtf would do that. It responds fine to the throttle and sounds less lean than it did before I guess. I'm nervous to really tweak it anymore and ride it, I'm going to wait till I can get the tires put on. I don't trust these tires, at 50 the tires felt not so happy. And since that rear tire is gummed up with whatever slime, I'm just going to take it somewhere and have them put the tires on for me. I'm letting it cool a little for now before I crack the CVT and throw in the 8g weights. I'll keep tuning, but I won't push it past 50. I'll just see how it performs. |
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Post by Mrx2002 on Nov 23, 2014 11:50:42 GMT -5
So I put the contra and clutch springs in. Not sure if I can tell the difference yet, it def gets higher RPM before it takes off though so I guess that was the point. I changed the jet to a 95, when I took the plug out it looked rather dry and not so dark. I may throw in a #100 still and see how that works. I pulled the head, resprayed it RIGHT this time and put it back on. Ran it for a few min to warm up, let it cool and re torqued the bolts to 15ftlbs. I threw in some 6g sliders, I think I need heavier though. It feels like it's not pulling the belt out all the way. The heaviest I have are 8g sliders, I do have some 9g rollers though so I could always try those too. Oh I put the pod back on, but this time I cut away part of a side for proper air movement. It's more of a guard from the rear tire now. I took it for a ride. Umm.. Holy . First time I was actually nervous in pulling WOT for too long. I got to 50.2 mph and my RPMS approached almost 10k. That was with a wind at my back though, in the wind I got to 35mph and RPM stayed at ~8k and it wouldn't go any further. So yeah I'm thinking heavier weights in this pig. But jesus, over 9k RPM and 50mph? I still think I'm having carb/air/fuel issues though. The damn thing stalled out on me twice as soon as I stopped. It started right up though, but still. I can't think of wtf would do that. It responds fine to the throttle and sounds less lean than it did before I guess. I'm nervous to really tweak it anymore and ride it, I'm going to wait till I can get the tires put on. I don't trust these tires, at 50 the tires felt not so happy. And since that rear tire is gummed up with whatever slime, I'm just going to take it somewhere and have them put the tires on for me. I'm letting it cool a little for now before I crack the CVT and throw in the 8g weights. I'll keep tuning, but I won't push it past 50. I'll just see how it performs. Yep thats how my brothers 50cc pocket bike feels it revs to 15-16k and 56mph max its fun but omg it can kill you like THAT! Found a pic of it yes it's water cooled lol  |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 13:10:13 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think tuning the carb is the bane of my existence.
I tried a #100 and it didn't want to move, kept bogging on me. I threw the 95 in and it responds better, but it still bogged out. Not seizing on me, the motor keeps running it just bogs down. I removed the pod and it seemed better? I'm going to try a #90 and see how it goes. Maybe I read the plug wrong, I dunno. It seemed wetter after my first run. I'll check it again now.
I tried the 8g sliders, it "shifted" early and got stuck around 7k but it was barely going 37. I put the 7g sliders in now and it seemed better.
I'm taking a few minute break to eat and get my marbles back for now before I swap the jet again. I am not sure why this thing bogs at WOT like that. When I let go of the throttle, it's fine but when I crank back it acts like it doesn't want to rev unless I coast for like 10 seconds and then it revs fine again. Double You Tee Eff...
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 14:34:37 GMT -5
Looks like even with the #90 main jet it still is acting like an ass. I'm bringing it to an 85 and making one more test. I also called that guy near by. He's not open today, but he said he charges $15 per tire to mount them if you bring the tires and rims in. If you bring the whole scoot, it's about 1.5 hours of labor. Not sure what the labor charge would be so i'll see about removing the rims and putting the thing on stands tonight. Test ride with the #85. No improvement, slower speed, after it warmed up it bogged again. Had to coast at idle for 10 seconds before it responded to the throttle again. I wish someone would tell me what direction to go in here because frankly I'm losing my damn mind with this. I'm tempted to just buy a new carb but my options are the same piece of stock or the Dell clone that I'll have to make modifications to put it in. I'm leaning towards that Dell since it would be a hell of a lot easier to change jets over dismantling the whole bottom half like I am now. So I've gone from #100 down to 85 and can't seem to get it to stop bogging after a minute of WOT. |
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Post by Mrx2002 on Nov 23, 2014 14:37:39 GMT -5
Is it acting like the carb is running out of fuel?
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 15:00:21 GMT -5
Is it acting like the carb is running out of fuel? I don't know how it's acting because I can't be sure and tell myself. The float is fine, if anything the float is too "high" which means the bowl has plenty of fuel. The petcock seems to be ok but I'm not in the mood to change it and wear more gas right now. I have two 1/4 inline fuel shut off valves on their way, if the post office would stop being a dick and get them to me already. Then at least I could eliminate the fuel pump all together. The engine did sound a big higher pitched though with the 85 so maybe I need to go down to an 80? The carb had a #75 in it I believe before I got the jet kit. |
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 15:23:39 GMT -5
So I did some reading around and saw a post from renners about his carb issues. He seemed to have the same issue I was having, open air filter and all and bogging at WOT. So I decided to really look at the needle in this thing. The needle is longer than the one that was in my other carb, however it is NOT adjustable. It seems like it's going further down, thus leaner and yet I still can't get this thing in tune. I don't want to go too low on the MJ and run lean on a new BBK. I'm going to put the stock airbox back together and see how that works. Even though I really really hate that damn thing. *sigh*  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 23, 2014 15:27:50 GMT -5
First, pick one thing to work on. Sounds like it's in tune enough to focus on the carb or whatever is making it bog after WOT for a bit. Decide how you want the air filter and then leave it alone and only mess with the main jet and WOT runs. Gets rid of a lot of confusion and helps you learn what's what if you only have one variable.
With the wide array of jetting unless the plug is always wet after WOT I'd investigate the fuel system farther. One easy thing to do is leave the cap off and see if anything changes. If it will suddenly run WOT as long as you'd like, there's a venting issue. That's wishful thinking, but it's an easy check. Just be careful not to spill fuel.
Running hot, dry or lightly colored spark plug, and a clean sound or bog tend to mean it's running lean. Running cool, wet or dark spark plug, and sputtering usually mean it's rich. While I do believe you should find the appropriate jet and these are not fixes, things like plugging holes in an air box or taping over sections of a filter may be useful if all else fails and you can't figure out what it needs.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 23, 2014 16:08:16 GMT -5
First, pick one thing to work on. Sounds like it's in tune enough to focus on the carb or whatever is making it bog after WOT for a bit. Decide how you want the air filter and then leave it alone and only mess with the main jet and WOT runs. Gets rid of a lot of confusion and helps you learn what's what if you only have one variable. With the wide array of jetting unless the plug is always wet after WOT I'd investigate the fuel system farther. One easy thing to do is leave the cap off and see if anything changes. If it will suddenly run WOT as long as you'd like, there's a venting issue. That's wishful thinking, but it's an easy check. Just be careful not to spill fuel. Running hot, dry or lightly colored spark plug, and a clean sound or bog tend to mean it's running lean. Running cool, wet or dark spark plug, and sputtering usually mean it's rich. While I do believe you should find the appropriate jet and these are not fixes, things like plugging holes in an air box or taping over sections of a filter may be useful if all else fails and you can't figure out what it needs. Frankly, I'm giving up on this thing right now. It's pissing me off. I've been focusing on the jetting and I can't seem to find one that won't die. Every time I get to WOT for a few, it bogs. Now it feels hot as hell and I'm now finding the top of the air intake (on top of the reed valve) is wet? First off, this air intake is a pile of crap because you can't access all the bolts right so you either get one not all the way tight or you strip the living daylights out of the head. I thought from Renners post that it could be a needle issue. So I checked the needle that was in the carb, it's got one slot. But the needle is longer and sits further down than the one from my old carb. So I changed the slide and made sure the needle was sitting all the way down. It still bogged on me. As I'm running WOT, I can feel it slowly die out on me till it finally "suffocates" itself till I let off the throttle. I haven't touched anything else, the filter has been wide open since I had the #95 jet in it. The thing reacts fine from 0-1/2 almost 3/4 throttle. It's when I open it up that it starts to act like crap. I don't have the patience anymore today. I've spent my entire day trying to tune this carb and I feel like I'm just dealing with another crappy fake that I'm just wasting my time with. I don't know man. I'm lost, I don't know what direction to go in, I don't know why when I think I have it fixed I don't and sadly without any real live input here, I'm done. I just wasted my entire weekend on this thing only to have it running worse than it was before. It was fast this morning, but bogged down. Going back through my thread, I see the #95 gave me the best results. So I'll go back there maybe this long weekend and see what it gets me. It has 7g sliders in it right now. I'm thinking of switching it back to rollers, these sliders seem to not liking my Hoca Vari in either this scoot or the 4t. I may have to mod the intake or switch over to front facing and figure out an air filter situation. I can't stand not being able to tighten it down right. It's got gaskets on both sides of the reed block and I can't figure out where the wetness came from. I'm also going to switch back to the stock fan. I don't think this Hoca fan is cooling enough. I don't feel much of a breeze at the other end of the shroud. Plus this shroud is barely hanging on to itself it seems. There's so many issues that right now I just am out of patience and clarity. It's getting parked on the patio for the week till I can get the time to waste on it again. Once again, my house is a wreck and I haven't done a damn thing to it except make it worse this weekend.  |
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 23, 2014 17:55:25 GMT -5
First, pick one thing to work on. Sounds like it's in tune enough to focus on the carb or whatever is making it bog after WOT for a bit. Decide how you want the air filter and then leave it alone and only mess with the main jet and WOT runs. Gets rid of a lot of confusion and helps you learn what's what if you only have one variable. With the wide array of jetting unless the plug is always wet after WOT I'd investigate the fuel system farther. One easy thing to do is leave the cap off and see if anything changes. If it will suddenly run WOT as long as you'd like, there's a venting issue. That's wishful thinking, but it's an easy check. Just be careful not to spill fuel. Running hot, dry or lightly colored spark plug, and a clean sound or bog tend to mean it's running lean. Running cool, wet or dark spark plug, and sputtering usually mean it's rich. While I do believe you should find the appropriate jet and these are not fixes, things like plugging holes in an air box or taping over sections of a filter may be useful if all else fails and you can't figure out what it needs. Frankly, I'm giving up on this thing right now. It's pissing me off. I've been focusing on the jetting and I can't seem to find one that won't die. Every time I get to WOT for a few, it bogs. Now it feels hot as hell and I'm now finding the top of the air intake (on top of the reed valve) is wet? First off, this air intake is a pile of crap because you can't access all the bolts right so you either get one not all the way tight or you strip the living daylights out of the head. I thought from Renners post that it could be a needle issue. So I checked the needle that was in the carb, it's got one slot. But the needle is longer and sits further down than the one from my old carb. So I changed the slide and made sure the needle was sitting all the way down. It still bogged on me. As I'm running WOT, I can feel it slowly die out on me till it finally "suffocates" itself till I let off the throttle. I haven't touched anything else, the filter has been wide open since I had the #95 jet in it. The thing reacts fine from 0-1/2 almost 3/4 throttle. It's when I open it up that it starts to act like crap. I don't have the patience anymore today. I've spent my entire day trying to tune this carb and I feel like I'm just dealing with another crappy fake that I'm just wasting my time with. I don't know man. I'm lost, I don't know what direction to go in, I don't know why when I think I have it fixed I don't and sadly without any real live input here, I'm done. I just wasted my entire weekend on this thing only to have it running worse than it was before. It was fast this morning, but bogged down. Going back through my thread, I see the #95 gave me the best results. So I'll go back there maybe this long weekend and see what it gets me. It has 7g sliders in it right now. I'm thinking of switching it back to rollers, these sliders seem to not liking my Hoca Vari in either this scoot or the 4t. I may have to mod the intake or switch over to front facing and figure out an air filter situation. I can't stand not being able to tighten it down right. It's got gaskets on both sides of the reed block and I can't figure out where the wetness came from. I'm also going to switch back to the stock fan. I don't think this Hoca fan is cooling enough. I don't feel much of a breeze at the other end of the shroud. Plus this shroud is barely hanging on to itself it seems. There's so many issues that right now I just am out of patience and clarity. It's getting parked on the patio for the week till I can get the time to waste on it again. Once again, my house is a wreck and I haven't done a damn thing to it except make it worse this weekend. I to have been there, and it aint fun bro! It has just started getting a little easier for me, sometimes. I think you are on the right track, you gotta get the airflow consistent and predictable, period. Do whatever you have to to get the intake issue resolved. I have a VX50, but it does not run at this time, and it was damaged from 2 ice storms. I have not looked at my VX50 that closely, so I don't know if a forward facing intake will fit or not, but if it will, that would be your best bet I think. Along with a stock airbox, you can begin to end the madness. |
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