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Post by tsimi on Aug 17, 2015 20:44:34 GMT -5
As the title says, I was wondering why some of you guys buy a Chinese Scooter?
I was just curious to know since we don't have those "dangerous" Chinese cheapo Scooters here in Japan. And it will probably never happen that they would sell them here. The fact that the PDI is in the hands of the customer is out of story.
That is crazy and can be dangerous in some cases, the Laws here would not allow it.
I know they are cheap and you get them delivered to your doorsteps in a crate but what do you "actually" get for that price?
So you pay what, around $900 for a frame, 2 wheels(*tires not included), plastic body parts and the engine case. All the other stuff will/should be replaced sooner or later.
Replacement parts;
All kinds of bearings
Crank
BBK
Gear
Carburetor
The whole CVT stuff
Reeds
Intake
Stator
Ignition stuff
Tires
Oils (Gear & Engine)
...hell, that is almost a whole Scooter right there...
So if I calculate all the parts + the $900 for the Scooter you get around $1500 maybe more maybe less depends on the grade of the afterparts.
Since most people replace anyway those mentioned parts why not purchase a Yamaha or Honda or some European brand? There must be something around (2nd hand) for less then $900.
The crank from a Honda or Yamaha can withstand lot more then a crank from a Chinese Scooter there alone you save $150-$300 bucks. Then the bearings, all Yamaha Scooters use high quality bearings, that saves another few bucks.
If anyone has an explanation that makes sense please share. Thank You.
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Post by katastroff on Aug 17, 2015 21:10:55 GMT -5
Because they are dangerous.  When i bought mine, i had no idea what i was getting, but it all turned out good since i love spending time riding it as much as i love wrenching on it. For me it was a learning experience, something to toy aroung with and, once a year, go out on some wicked wannabe-biker trek. |
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Post by ohhbuddy on Aug 17, 2015 21:15:50 GMT -5
I bought one because I was able to buy performance parts... I sold it now. Now I got me a Genuine/PGO. I'd still blown away that I was able to get it to run 70mph/113kmh. And its only 70ccs. When I had a 139qmb 88cc/ 52mm detonating like firecrackers in a glass jar because of the small combustion chamber head but had larger valves, 8.3:1 gear-up only did 80kmh tops everything else was stock
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 21:20:00 GMT -5
The scooter I have was $600 new and so far, there is 4,200 miles on it. Even if it only lasts to 5,000 miles, a guy could buy 5 of these scoots and go over 20,000 miles and still have paid less than the price of one Japanese scooter. I think (hope) my scooter will last much longer than that. Plus, they are dangerous...an added bonus.
Bill
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Post by Fox on Aug 17, 2015 21:22:05 GMT -5
They are a more affordable option for students and low income people. True they will nickel and dime you over the lifespan of the scooter and you had better figure out how to fix it yourself or your experience won't be a pleasant one but if you do learn to service your own scooter then you will get from point A to point B for a few years cheaper than if you were to buy a Vespa, Japanese or Italian made scooter because replacement parts are so much cheaper and very plentiful.
The main problem I see is that people don't do any research prior to their purchase of a Chinese scoot and when they experience glitches that will surely show up they get ripped off by dealers and mechanics due to their own ignorance and they show up here after the fact and begin the research process with a post asking about why their scooter dies at a stop light or whatever. I have seen numerous scooters that had over 4000 miles on the factory oil, scooters that were ridden hundred and hundreds of miles on flat tires and various other issues that were caused by simple neglect of their owners who thought they could gas and go forever.
If you know going in that there is going to be some periodic maint. required and you do a thorough PDI on it before you take it for a 100 mile ride then your scooter will be more reliable, last longer and won't nickle and dime you as much.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 17, 2015 21:42:48 GMT -5
I bought my first scoot (2004 Vento Triton) for $1460 out the door from a dealer. I came from Chinese midbikes that had very reliable little engines so I had a decent perception of Chinese made 2-wheelers. I wanted a new scoot that I could pick up without driving more than a couple of hours and I was pushing my budget even at that cost. I really liked the look of the Triton and it got pretty good reviews. I had a rear brake issue and a wiring issue right off the bat. After that, it was relatively trouble free for the first 4,000 miles or so... then I started modding it. Next scoot was another Triton. Turned out to be a 90cc and I got it for just over $60. It's been through a lot of engines, but this is the one I call T2 and it has some hardcore miles on it. I really enjoy riding it with all the mods and would have no desire to trade it for a Zuma or Ruckus. Heck the Ruckus crowd goes out and buys a Japanese scoot and swaps the engine out for a Chinese 150 regularly... then get's beat by a Chinese 2T.  Then I had a SunL 49cc 4T given to me. That one I did actually hate. I later cut it into pieces rather than sell it. I got my Keeway Venus in great shape from a friend of my father's for $100. Couldn't pass it up. I bought my TaoTao new for $675 to my door because I thought it would be a good project and I wanted to see what my 4T experience was like with one maybe not so crappy like the old SunL I had. It's certainly had it's problems, but I will say it'd have to have MANY more problems to make it to the cost of a new Honda or Yamaha. |
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Post by niz76 on Aug 17, 2015 21:45:51 GMT -5
When I decided to buy a scoot I jumped online and did a little research. After some reading I decided to stay away from Chinese scoots because, well- everything u wrote. I got excited when I found a Baccio for sale and snatched it up. I thought I had just bought an Italian made scoot. Haha what a noob!
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Aug 17, 2015 21:47:30 GMT -5
Is my scoot a China's best?? Or another brand? 2004 cpi tracker::::<<<<<it dos seem to be made really well anyway....
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Post by aeroxbud on Aug 18, 2015 5:26:49 GMT -5
Anyway back on topic.
We never got the really cheap Chinese scooters in the U.K. Most of them would ship to you with the PDI already done. They started about £500-£600. Really cheap when you consider my Aerox was £2,000.
The problem we had was everyone and his uncle was selling scooters. Most with no warrenty, or spares back up.
A few years on most are sold through bike shops now, with at least some back up. The price has gone up though. Nearer £1,000 now for a 50cc, but the build quality is much better.
They sell loads of 125cc Chinese bikes for £1,300-£1,500 saving over a thousand pounds on a similuar style Honda or yamaha.
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Post by derbiman on Aug 18, 2015 7:32:38 GMT -5
This is just an observation on my part. If it weren't for the Chinese scooters and owners on this forum,there probably would not be a forum at all. If you take the Chinese scooters out of the equation,there would be far less posts here.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 18, 2015 9:45:17 GMT -5
Is my scoot a China's best?? Or another brand? 2004 cpi tracker::::<<<<<it dos seem to be made really well anyway.... Some claim Taiwan, I'd guess China. Look at your VIN. If the first character is L than it's made in China. R would be made in Taiwan. My Tritons have CPI stampings and both have L as the first character of the VIN. This is just an observation on my part. If it weren't for the Chinese scooters and owners on this forum,there probably would not be a forum at all. If you take the Chinese scooters out of the equation,there would be far less posts here. This particular forum prob wouldn't be here because I would have ended up just dumping more money into my Mustang if I had to pay $2000+ for a new scooter. A friend bought a scoot as well and I went with him looking at used stuff. The market was really small here, still isn't huge, and people wanted a lot of money for crappy used scooters. One was to this day the ugliest most beat up scoot I've seen in person and they were asking $450 for it (Sunny style 4T like my TaoTao). At the time a base model 4T was going for $900+ locally. Things have changed a lot in 10 years though. Now there's at least a bit of a craigslist market and I can find local dealers selling the basic 4Ts for $600-700. I know that's not what you were getting at though. The Chinese scoots certainly do have more than their share of issues. |
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Aug 18, 2015 9:57:26 GMT -5
Thanks gt90!!!! Mine starts with an R...... So I guess I can't relate to China scoot as mine isn't!!!!! That's why it' seems to be made really well, certainly not cheap plastics anyway!!!
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Post by tsimi on Aug 18, 2015 10:08:09 GMT -5
90GTVertThose are great answers. Fox mentioned students that don't have much of a budget to spend. Or your stories makes sense. I personally like derbimans observation, he is absolutely right, without those troubles on those Scooters this forum would be probably lot more quiet. And btw. thanks for the cleaning.
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Post by paulmohr on Aug 18, 2015 16:24:21 GMT -5
Why does one by a Chinese Scooter? Well let's see. And remember I can only speak from the American market because I have never lived anywhere else.
I would say the biggest reason is MONEY. When you go looking at scooters at your local motorcycle shops and they have a honda or a yamaha for 2500 dollars you start to question if how much you REALLY want a scooter. Especially when for 3 or 5 thousand you can get a small motorcycle that you can ride on the express way. Then when you see a Chinese scooter and it is 800 to 1800 dollars you ask your self "come on, how much worse can they really be?". And I am talking dealership prices, not the ultra good deals on the internet. There are over a billion people in China and I bet half of them are riding scooters. And I am kind of thinking they didn't get them from Japan or Europe.
Which leads us to the second reason. Most just don't know any better. A lot of these cheaper scooters really don't look like junk. Unless you really get down close and compare different things they don't look a whole lot worse than one from somewhere else. And lets not forget, some people that think they are getting scooters from japan or somewhere else are actually getting them from china. Almost everyone has some product made in china and re branded. It is just how life works now. You think every part on your new harley was made in the USA? I have bad news for you, its not.
And then you have the people like me that know the Chinese scooters are not as good, but it still hard to pass up the price. I will be flat out honest, the dealer told me the scooters I was buying were not built as well as some of the more expensive models. But when I think "Not built as well, or not as reliable" I am thinking long term. Like this one for 1300 dollars might not last me 20 years or I might need to do some tinkering. I didn't think it would break in 3 days lol. And that isn't to say they are all junk too. My first two were Roketa scooters. They were actually built very well, very solid and rode really nice. My brother is still riding his and hasn't a problem with it. Mine had problems right away, but I think it had more to do with who assembled it then who made it. And yep, it was assembled in the United States at a small shop. Actually both of mine were, and it looked like they were put together by a 13 year old with an attitude that was being told he had to do it. Like taking out the garbage or mowing the lawn. They will get it done, but don't expect it to look great.
On my first one the variator came loose on me while riding it, and it had surging problems. The second one the carb actually came loose and broke the vacuum seal. Not to mention every nut and bolt on the thing was loose. This is not a design flaw or cheap materials. As a matter of fact these were both scooters that had upgraded japanese parts put on them before being sold. So it wasn't a parts failure issue, it was a "someone not doing their job" issue while putting them together or upgrading them.
And then you have the other people, like who you meet here on these forums for the most part. The ones that did the research and know what they are getting into, but decide to do it anyway. They understand it will be a challenge and they take it on willingly either to save the money, or for the challenge of doing it. I would say the people that are ordering a Chinese scooter off the net for 500 bucks in a crate are pretty sure they are not getting a 2000 dollar honda with fuel injection and all metal parts for a cheaper price.
I would be willing to bet that the majority of Chinese scooters, especially the higher end models, if assembled correctly and with care probably run just fine. And with regular service probably last for a while too. I would bet most of the bad reputation comes from them either being slapped together, or they have been tinkered with, or modded to the point where they are not reliable anymore. Do the same things to a Japanese scooter and I bet you still end up with a pile of junk. Just a better built, prettier pile of junk is all. If I have learned anything in the past 40 years is that in the right hands anything can be ruined.
A comparison would be the roketa. My brothers roketa is a Zuma clone and it cost 1300 dollars off the show room floor assembled. With an upgraded japanes carb. I looked at a real Zuma last week at a motorcycle dealership. It was 2700 dollars. Did it look better? A little bit, but it certainly didn't look like it was worth twice the money. Then you look at the Honda Grom for 3000 dollars and it looks better than some scooters that cost more than that.
My opinions anyway. In my case, if it boiled down to me only being able to get a Japanese scooter I wouldn't have a scooter. The prices were just too high to justify it. But I have always thought motorcycles cost way more than they should. Heck anymore a nice one cost as much a damn car. That is is just ridiculous in my opinion.
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Post by filip on Aug 18, 2015 17:57:15 GMT -5
Thanks gt90!!!! Mine starts with an R...... So I guess I can't relate to China scoot as mine isn't!!!!! That's why it' seems to be made really well, certainly not cheap plastics anyway!!! Lucky you  I think some of it comes to luck, as some manufacturers source parts from other manufacturers based on price so you can get better or worse quality parts on the scoots, even when they look the same. I remember watching a keeway manufacturing vid, and they make most of the parts in house. |
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