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Post by tsimi on Aug 21, 2015 2:29:33 GMT -5
Good point there spaz12. So in short we drive Japanese Company Named Kymcos. lol In this time and age there are only very few products left that are manufactured in Japan itself. Then the question would be if a Yamaha or Honda are manufactured in Taiwan what's the high price policy then? Paying for the name as Fox mentioned earlier? What about performance? How many bhp(Horsepower) does a 4T and a 2T output in the US or Europe? And what about CDI restrictions? Are the European/Japanese Scoots restricted? Peugeot? Aprillia? Vespa? Yamaha? Honda? Kymco? I just had a talk with the local bike shop guy and he told me that the Yamaha R6 has way more horsepower in Europe or US then in Japan. Because the Japanese restrict their stuff to stay within the current laws here. They did the same crap in the 80s and 90s with the cars like GT-R, Lancer Evo and Supra. Those car can easy put out more then 300bhp but they restricted them to max. 280bhp |
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Post by spaz12 on Aug 21, 2015 3:59:00 GMT -5
Good point there spaz12. So in short we drive Japanese Company Named Kymcos. lol In this time and age there are only very few products left that are manufactured in Japan itself. Then the question would be if a Yamaha or Honda are manufactured in Taiwan what's the high price policy then? Paying for the name as Fox mentioned earlier? What about performance? How many bhp(Horsepower) does a 4T and a 2T output in the US or Europe? And what about CDI restrictions? Are the European/Japanese Scoots restricted? Peugeot? Aprillia? Vespa? Yamaha? Honda? Kymco? I just had a talk with the local bike shop guy and he told me that the Yamaha R6 has way more horsepower in Europe or US then in Japan. Because the Japanese restrict their stuff to stay within the current laws here. They did the same crap in the 80s and 90s with the cars like GT-R, Lancer Evo and Supra. Those car can easy put out more then 300bhp but they restricted them to max. 280bhp I think it's all in the quality of the materials that are used and the quality control that is performed. Better tolerances. It's almost like comparing it to when you have your motor 'blue printed'. When something is designed it has tight clearances, but when you mass produce something, whatever it is, you stray further from the designers original intentions. Some are better at mass production then others. Obviously the Taiwanese are better in this case. In all honesty, I don't think the Chinese care. They just want to make something and sell it for profit. Speaking of cars, when I was growing up, Japanese cars were pretty much just coming to America and man, did you hear a lot of crap about them. Most everyone hated them. Not because of bad quality, though that's what everyone said was the reason, but because of prejudice. At least that's my opinion, because over the years everyone now knows that Japanese cars are some of, if not the, best cars made. You can't kill a Toyota or a Honda! They're more dependable than a damn Timex wrist watch. They really are amazing cars and it shows in their resale value here. I'm also sure that the Japanese auto companies were on a quest to prove that they could make good reliable stuff and they've proved time and time again that they can. Kudo's to the japanese! The Chinese on the other hand; they seem to be playing an entirely different game. I don't get how they keep producing garbage and expect people to keep buying it. It boggles my mind. Though, maybe the economy is in such a shit state that people will buy far inferior products with the mindset that if it just lasts long enough for me to buy another one, that'll be okay because I have what I need for now and that when this breaks, and it will, I'll have enough to buy another one. Of course no one thinks about the long term effects of all the crap they're throwing away and adding to the garbage we already have. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway  |
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Post by tsimi on Aug 21, 2015 5:34:55 GMT -5
spaz12Very well said. Especially this part. I think the quality control checks is what sets them apart and makes a product different even if it is produced inside the same country. Brand name products are by far not perfect as with any product there are always a few lemons under them but the amount of lemons with popular brands and the no-name brands is huge. To have a faulty Mobile phone or entertainment device is not as dangerous as having something with a motor under it and going on public roads. That is why I said what I said in my first post. But it looks like that even if you replace all parts and a Chinese Scooter becomes a mix of Taiwanese and European parts you can get cheaper away than starting such a project with a Brand Scooter. That is why they seem to be popular. Regarding Cars, that is THE biggest industry here and one of the few products still produced and assembled here in Japan. Even though some parts are made in foreign countries and imported.
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Post by 2TDave on Aug 21, 2015 6:19:07 GMT -5
I have a couple Chinese scoots and a Zuma. The build and fit quality of the Zuma is superior. That being said my Chinese scoots are much easier to work on and more comfortable to ride.
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Post by moofus02 on Aug 21, 2015 8:04:37 GMT -5
What Dave said
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Post by Fox on Aug 21, 2015 9:27:48 GMT -5
Well I don't care what brand or model you get, if you don't do the oil changes and other required maint. regularly and you don't let it warm up properly before you haul ass on it then it's going to fail sooner than it would have had you treated it right.
Poor Chinese QC means that some faulty parts are going to slip through and end up on Ebay/online or they will be installed on a new scooter waiting to be shipped to an unsuspecting customer somewhere so many scooters break down even if the owners do everything right. The Chinese could do better but the parts market is probably a high percentage of their profit so there's not a lot of incentive to increase quality. They are providing affordable alternatives to the market and it's a buyer beware world. The bottom line is you should do some research before you buy anything. There are plenty of web posts and reviews on blogs and elsewhere chronicling people's experiences with Chinese scooters but you know the old saying: "A sucker is born every minute" There will always be the impulse buyers that don't think before they make that purchase.
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Post by Sitticuss on Aug 21, 2015 12:44:17 GMT -5
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Post by Lucass2T on Aug 21, 2015 14:01:19 GMT -5
In my life i worked once on a Chinese scoot and totally hated that. Every part looked Like to be exposable. When it's broken, don't fix It, just replace the whole scoot. I don't even like Sym since their quality level is below the 90's-00's Japanese two stroke scoots.
Maybe im spoiled Because i only got to work on and own european/japanese piaggio /minarelli based scoots.
Don't like chinese scoots and will never buy One.
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Post by FrankenMech on Aug 21, 2015 14:20:33 GMT -5
Back when I was a child the products coming from Japan were as bad or worse than the products coming from China now. As each country, Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, China, Malaysia, Mexico, etc, has grown a manufacturing base products have increased in quality. It does not happen all across product lines or factories evenly. It is a learning process. Factories learn that a high quality part uses a similar quantity of resources and time as a low quality part and eventually less as scrap rates go down. We will see more developing countries go through the same learning process. I have hope for the future in some ways. I have seen tremendous strides in some areas of Chinese manufacturing the last few years.
On the other hand people will want the same standard of living that others have. I don't believe that will ever happen. We have too may people on this planet.
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Post by frank50e on Aug 21, 2015 14:21:59 GMT -5
You ask why Chinese, how do you think these poor guys, who spent serious money on the new 750cc Harley will feel when they find out they are made in India.Even the Chinese laugh at India's QC.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 18:44:58 GMT -5
Back when I was a child the products coming from Japan were as bad or worse than the products coming from China now. As each country, Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, China, Malaysia, Mexico, etc, has grown a manufacturing base products have increased in quality. It does not happen all across product lines or factories evenly. It is a learning process. Factories learn that a high quality part uses a similar quantity of resources and time as a low quality part and eventually less as scrap rates go down. We will see more developing countries go through the same learning process. I have hope for the future in some ways. I have seen tremendous strides in some areas of Chinese manufacturing the last few years. On the other hand people will want the same standard of living that others have. I don't believe that will ever happen. We have too may people on this planet. Exactly right. Even in the old cartoons like Buggs Bunny, when a guy tried to use a camera and the lens fell off, it would then show a label that said "Made In Japan". All that stuff back then from them was indeed crap. But, they got better, a lot better and even kicked the butts of the US car makers in the 70's. It was deserved because Detroit was trying to sell us total crap! Japan got better and so did the US...China will too and I agree, the quality of a lot of their goods is getting much better. Some stuff, not so much. As always, we need to be educated consumers. I happen to love my China Scoot. Bill |
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Post by birdman on Aug 21, 2015 22:58:30 GMT -5
You ask why Chinese, how do you think these poor guys, who spent serious money on the new 750cc Harley will feel when they find out they are made in India.Even the Chinese laugh at India's QC. Lol Yup!! Hyosung powerplants! Made in India lol |
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Post by jenksy on Sept 10, 2015 8:14:09 GMT -5
Well I did a bit of research in the UK prior to buying a scooter for my journey to work and home, about 10 miles a day. I'm in my 50's and ride on my car licence so I have a 50cc scooter. Looking online I saw new Chinese made scooters for £499 plus on the road costs!! Very cheap indeed. So I started looking at various reviews of different scooters. A lot of the cheap scooters had very mixed reviews indeed ranging from horror stories to people who were more than happy. So they seemed very hit and miss! Then at the other end there are the Honda and Yamaha with very much good reviews and high prices (high quality) So what about European scooters? Peugeot , look ok mid priced, mixed reviews.... Made in China plus expensive parts. Italian scooters, again mixed reviews, price of some are quite reasonable parts expensive! In the middle Taiwanese namely Kymco and Sym. £1000ish gets you a decent scooter with a 2 year warranty. Reviews are generally positive. So I bought a Sym Symply 2. Seems very well made and I've had it for 2 years. The warranty went out of the window straight away when the dealer charged me £72 for the 300km oil change, I never went back and they went bust!! (Not because of me I'm sure). So I do my own basic servicing (learning curve for me but quite good fun). Anything major then there are several places nearby that are happy to work on Syms. New main dealer to supply bits and online places as well. Oh yes and my Taiwanese scooter is made in China!!
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Post by brandonscoot on Sept 11, 2015 10:51:50 GMT -5
I got a Chinese scoot because Your usually able to pick them up around my area in almost running conditions for 100-600 dollars... then you can spend a small amount of money and have enough parts to play with for weeks.... building, un building, shaving, modding, upgrading. Just having fun in general for a very low amount of money.
I love my Jap Honda CBR600 but you have to be a high roller to pimp one of those out.
One small original honda body panel cost about $300! a power commander = 250, quality slip on exhaust = $1000
haha thats only 3 mods and enough money to fund 2 fully built scooters!!!!!
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rol1
Scoot Junior
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Post by rol1 on Sept 16, 2015 19:31:43 GMT -5
Hello, new guy here. All the Yamahas I've worked on had Made in Italy. TGBs motors come from Italy. Piaggio motors come from Italy. I have seen lots of Minarelli clones and the GY6 are a Honda clone.
Many seem to say Chinese junk when they are thinking clone 4t but the Chinese 2t are not those. I have seen 4Ts taken care of and get 10 or 15 thousand miles, but only a handful.
If for some reason I were to buy a 4T I would disconnect the odometer before it hit a hundred miles and sell it at the first signs of problems.
But there are lots of good 2T Chinese clone scooters that will be dependable for years with almost no maintenance.
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