Crazy INSANE idea on a scoot...

[gy6luver]

Good Morning Everyone, Since we ended up talkin about multiple things in this thread i thought it might be helpful to address each reply with the subject, this will no doubt help others in their searches should any of this become helpful instead of just my ramblings

TODAYS TOPIC : scoot not starting with electric start


Today i tested the battery after it sat uncharged all night in the scoot, the tested voltage was 12.27 V

I also have removed the seat from the scoot and some panels and started checking the path the scoot uses to fire the electric start, the photos below show the places i have checked/cleaned/inspected on the scoot as part of my troubleshooting




BATTERY TERMINAL (the scoot has tested 12.27 V on this set of terminals, all acid levels are nominal, all connections to the battery are secure and clean



This ground wire runs off a split from the negative battery terminal, this connection is secure and metal to metal contact is cllean, this is located just above the air (fan) area, where the modded scoop sits



This is where the other part of that split, this is located under the right body panel, it also leads to a fuse block with a positive wire (this has also been checked and cleaned)



Lastly we have a fuse block located under the right body panel, this fuse is clean and functional and all wires leading to and from are clean and secure to metal


Thats it so far any help with my gremlins next troubelshooting steps would be great, ill stand by until i hear from the crew!

[gy6luver]

POSTED ON SCOOTDAWG

lol why didnt you say so, just short the starter, done that many times on a motor before, video below are the results

[90GTVert]

So it sounds like it's still weak. Did you ever do the check I showed in the vid to check cranking voltage? You can have a battery show good voltage at rest and not be able to handle a load. Could be the starter, but checking cranking voltage with your meter is much cheaper (free) than replacing the starter.

[gy6luver]

Aug 14, 2011 18:55:34 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

So it sounds like it's still weak. Did you ever do the check I showed in the vid to check cranking voltage? You can have a battery show good voltage at rest and not be able to handle a load. Could be the starter, but checking cranking voltage with your meter is much cheaper (free) than replacing the starter.

Only issue is i cant crank it with the starter it wont turn over that much, when i push the starter well you saw that video already right?

[Reign]

What happens when you hit the starter button? Does it make a clicking sound and not start? Or does the engine turn over a few times, slowly? If it makes a clicking sound, the battery doesnt have enough juice to trigger the relay. And with the battery being under 12.3 overnight, and 11.7 yesterday, I'd say your 2 month old battery may be toast. Just because it's 2 months old doesn't mean it's still good. When I first bought my scooter, it needed a new battery. I bought one that needed to be hand-filled with acid. It lasted about 2 or 3 weeks, and it was dead. I shipped it back, and they sent me a sealed battery, with the acid already added. IIRC, it came fully charged at like 12.6V, and I've had it for over 2 years with no issues. I've drawed it down to literally nothing, and it still recharges overnight back to 12.5V+

Also, that battery doesnt even look like the right one for that scooter, tbh. It doesnt look like it fits right in the space, and it looks too tall to even fit the battery cover on correctly.

[gy6luver]

Aug 14, 2011 20:45:20 GMT -5 Reign said:

What happens when you hit the starter button? Does it make a clicking sound and not start? Or does the engine turn over a few times, slowly? If it makes a clicking sound, the battery doesnt have enough juice to trigger the relay. And with the battery being under 12.3 overnight, and 11.7 yesterday, I'd say your 2 month old battery may be toast. Just because it's 2 months old doesn't mean it's still good. When I first bought my scooter, it needed a new battery. I bought one that needed to be hand-filled with acid. It lasted about 2 or 3 weeks, and it was dead. I shipped it back, and they sent me a sealed battery, with the acid already added. IIRC, it came fully charged at like 12.6V, and I've had it for over 2 years with no issues. I've drawed it down to literally nothing, and it still recharges overnight back to 12.5V+

Also, that battery doesnt even look like the right one for that scooter, tbh. It doesnt look like it fits right in the space, and it looks too tall to even fit the battery cover on correctly.

Very observant the battery is not the fit for this scooter dimension wise, it is a battery that is filled with acide when you buy it, its a powersports battery , if the battery is only a couple months old something tells me they owe me a new battery, the battery cover on this scoot was lost before i aquired the scoot, i fashioned a homemade cover to pass inspection

In answer to your question about what happens when i hit the starter take a listen at this video i posted earlier in this thread

[Reign]

Well it's not clicking like the relay isn't triggering. It sounds like a gear turning very slowly, like the battery doesnt have enough power to push the electric motor hard enough. Also, if you were revving it up and still only seeing 12.3ish volts, there's definitely an issue with your charging system. I see around 14V+ when revving the engine on my scooter.

My suggestion would be to make sure your relay is OK. Because if the battery doesnt have enough juice to turn the electric motor, it shouldnt have enough juice to even trigger the relay (hence, the clicking you should be hearing) But it sounds to me like you may need a new rectifier/regulator, and battery at a minimum. If it still has problems afterwards, you may need a new starter relay as well.

[Reign]

I noticed you have another motorcycle sitting in the background on that video. Could you perhaps take the battery off of that and throw it on the scooter temporarily and see if the electric start works with that?

[90GTVert]

Aug 14, 2011 19:47:26 GMT -5 gy6luver said:

Aug 14, 2011 18:55:34 GMT -5 90GTVert said:

So it sounds like it's still weak. Did you ever do the check I showed in the vid to check cranking voltage? You can have a battery show good voltage at rest and not be able to handle a load. Could be the starter, but checking cranking voltage with your meter is much cheaper (free) than replacing the starter.

Only issue is i cant crank it with the starter it wont turn over that much, when i push the starter well you saw that video already right?

Hook up the multimeter to the battery, then jump the starter relay and watch the meter. I'm not sure why the button would work, but not as well as jumping the terminals on the relay. The relay and the button are both things that tend to either work or not.

[gy6luver]

I Thought i posted this already, but i jumped the starter relay in this video



No ohm meter was hooked up at the time though,

[90GTVert]

Yeah I saw the video. I know it's weak but that doesn't tell why it's weak. You need to put the meter and the jump together. Hook the meter to the battery (should be reading above 12V at rest), set on VDC and jump the relay while watching the multimeter.

[gy6luver]

Hello Everyone,

First off let me thank all of you who have contributed to this thread, your input and combined knowledge will make this trip a safe and successful endeavor for me and my scoot.

Now i have moved the planning sheet to google docs so all who would like to participate in this trips creation and planning may do so, feel free to add anything you think i have missed or left out that is important. Right now as you will see the trip is a 5 day trip which should help keep scooot alive.

I look forward to any contributions (ESPECIALLY in the spare parts listing, as i will need to generate an order of that very soon, the tools list is almost completely finished, i will fill it in later!

you can see the spreadsheet in a live editable format (do not forget to save your revisions) here

spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anoyyw1ApVRtdDM2YjU1UDZGY1laNTFEVEI3b2lxLXc&hl=en_US

[gy6luver]

While i am preparing i was hoping to ask everyone the top speed of my new scoot WITHOUT LOAD i m assuming is 59 mph, i was told that if i change out the gears that would show my best performance speed increase, can we open up a little bit of a side discussion on this?

I found this at partsforscooters

www.partsforscooters.com/Gear_set_gy6?sc=9&category=122755

[90GTVert]

I'd assume 50-55 cruising speeds and probably 60ish max. Cruising speed is all that really matters for a good scoot to ride. I'm not sure that upgears are a great mod for a stocker. I think you could increase cruising speeds, but if you have to deal with hills or headwinds your speeds will fluctuate more most likely. If you do go with upgears, I'd tune the CVT with slider weights afterward to get the best performance.

For our 50s, big bore kits are king. With the 150, you gain such a small amount of displacement that they aren't a huge improvement unless you go with something that requires a lot of work machining the cases to fit significantly larger bores.

I'm not too well versed on the 150s and what's best for them though, so maybe someone has better input.

[gy6luver]

Brent,

That helps a lot, I forgot that you were all using 50ccs lol, but in your speed leaderboard i saw you had a scoot that did 72MPH!

While the scoot that i have now got up to 80 mph (not gps verified) and that was the result of some "tuning" it didnt last, in fact it was during that fateful ride that the exhaust melted off the engine, i took it out the other day and it was gps verified WITHOUT the exhaust at 48 MPH (long story that includes ordering from scrappydog which has SLOW ASS delivery, i been waiting 7 days for their "fast" parts) i wonder once all the parts are put back on if it will go up in speed at all!

Also i wouldnt have a problem tuning the gears and the sliders at all, im curious the gain would be worth it though

Lots going on right now

FYI: brent, if you could drop by that google doc i could use your input on WHAT I REALLY NEED to bring for spare parts on t his trip, the tools section is covered thanks to you, but last thing i need to do is bring more spare parts on this trip then gear for myself lol

Thanks again