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Post by repherence2 on May 3, 2021 19:32:36 GMT -5
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Post by oldgeek on May 3, 2021 21:08:23 GMT -5
Well I dont think so. I have the 537604 crank now and Kymco stuff is loose as a goose on it  Unless malossi is shipping the 538471 crank out by mistake, and in the wrong box? Stupider things have happened! |
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Post by oldgeek on May 18, 2023 22:00:24 GMT -5
RESTART/RESET TO THIS MOTOR BUILD THREAD STARTS HERE
I am currently working on building this Tri-Port cylinder again. I want to get the old naked Kymco back on the road. I have a stock stroke Athena crank that seems to set up to this cylinder ok. I have a set of cases that I ported for another forgotten project that I might as well use for this build. Over the last couple of days I did some epoxy filling in the crank and oil pump area of the cases, I will post a picture or two of that later. I am pretty sure I have everything needed to finish this on hand, so maybe I will get it done this time.
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Post by oldgeek on May 20, 2023 20:00:22 GMT -5
Junk parts strike again! Stupid Athena crank is not machined quite right but I should be able to make it work. So the variator side of the crank on these motors has a bearing boss that is interference fit for the crank bearing, then there is a worm gear made into the crank for the oil pump drive and finally a rather long seal boss for the crankshaft seal. Well the seal boss is usually 10 thousandths or so smaller than the bearing boss so the crank bearing will slide over the seal boss easily then across the worm gear and then stops at the bearing boss due to the interference fit. The stupid seal boss on this crank has not been cut down, it is the same size as the bearing boss so the crank bearing will have to be passed over the seal boss then onto the bearing boss. The hot cold method I use to install crank bearings will probably work ok, I hope. But now I wonder if the seal boss on the crank will be too big for the seal and cause issues there?
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Post by 190mech on May 21, 2023 4:50:26 GMT -5
Chuck it up in the lathe (duct tape the rod) and sand that big portion down to original crank specs..
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Post by oldgeek on May 22, 2023 21:15:51 GMT -5
Chuck it up in the lathe (duct tape the rod) and sand that big portion down to original crank specs.. Well I was gonna do as you suggested, but I took one look over towards the lathe and decided I didn't want to screw with cutting a path over to it. Scootopia is a ridiculous mess. I somehow got the crank installed anyway, partly using the hot cold method and partly using the tusk crank puller. It went rather well, I may use the puller more often now. I cant seem to find the rings for the piston, I guess I will have to break down and clean the bench off where I last saw them. |
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kosmos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 108
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Post by kosmos on May 24, 2023 23:59:44 GMT -5
If you're talking about slip fit bearings I wouldn't do that. They'll spin, bearing race against the case or crankshaft arm, and have no lube as their not made to be lubed and heat up that area and overheat the motor. maybe im not reading that right but just wanted to put that out there. check out diospeeddemon's youtube where he spunt a bearing
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Post by aeroxbud on May 25, 2023 3:02:53 GMT -5
If you're talking about slip fit bearings I wouldn't do that. They'll spin, bearing race against the case or crankshaft arm, and have no lube as their not made to be lubed and heat up that area and overheat the motor. maybe im not reading that right but just wanted to put that out there. check out diospeeddemon's youtube where he spunt a bearing I think he was referring to the part of the crank where the seals sits. Not the actual bearing. Yes that would be a bad idea. I really like the tusk crank puller. It makes fitting cranks much easier. 👍 |
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Post by oldgeek on May 25, 2023 5:53:21 GMT -5
If you're talking about slip fit bearings I wouldn't do that. They'll spin, bearing race against the case or crankshaft arm, and have no lube as their not made to be lubed and heat up that area and overheat the motor. maybe im not reading that right but just wanted to put that out there. check out diospeeddemon's youtube where he spunt a bearing Yes, slip fit bearings are only for checking durations and setup of the crank and cylinder. It is the seal boss that was oversized on this Athena crank. ........ I really like the tusk crank puller. It makes fitting cranks much easier. 👍 It really is a well built and versatile kit. I did not want to heat these cases up due to the large amount of epoxy I used to fill some volume in the crank area, so the puller was the way to go. |
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Post by oldgeek on May 25, 2023 18:10:46 GMT -5
I still cannot find where I put the piston rings.  |
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kosmos
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 108
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Post by kosmos on May 26, 2023 2:15:14 GMT -5
I'm going to warn you about using the tusk crank puller, i know its too late now but ive heard its ok sometimes. I had one side of my crank bearing go out because of the tusk puller. It pulls the crankshaft arm through the bearing by holding against the crankcase. the crankcase isn't and can't support the inner race of the bearing which is the part your pulling (or pressing) the crank arm through; it holds it by the case. I had a bearing go out within 500 miles starting making rattling around noises. i took the crank case half off using the heat it in the oven method and the bearing was bad, replaced it using the heat freeze method and never had a problem since then. Heat freeze is a nerve racking method and honda has the tool to do it with. Make sure if you get it to get the right parts. I bought one claimed to be it and there was nothing that would slip around the crank arm and through the case seal part and hold against the inner bearing race. Honda sells it in 2 parts and some places got both of them together in one. I haven't tested mine yet but, i remember seeing it recently online with both together for like 60 bucks. I just bought the one half used off ebay and the other one I bought has a tool to pull against the other tool with and grab hold of the crank arm with. I'm just telling you about my experience and my think through of why. Check yours and see if it does ok for you. But it is some stress on the bearing when you first install it. Why its not good is its pulled through the bearing through the interference fit of the inner race by the crank arm. Instead of holding the bearing by the crank case on the outer race the bearing is put in the case and stops up against that, hold the race in which your pressing the part through the bearing with as you do it. Say that it might last you a while but if you have a problem, you know how to do it. I did find a use for my tusk crank puller tho. The crank arm seems to be a little off center sometimes in the boost port after I install a crank, it will hit further on one side than the other. And I didn't pay attention once and just fit the cylinder on and had the piston installed, and I turned the motor once and the cylinder was being pushed off. I heat up the case a little and use the tusk crank puller to center it while its warmed up a little.   I checked the Honda tool and heres how it fits and slips over the crankshaft arm all the way down to the bearing fit surface. Like a glove. I found one for 60 bucks searched online with both parts in the picture. part numbers are in the service manual you can find online. |
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Post by oldgeek on May 26, 2023 16:30:22 GMT -5
I'm going to warn you about using the tusk crank puller, i know its too late now but ive heard its ok sometimes. I had one side of my crank bearing go out because of the tusk puller. It pulls the crankshaft arm through the bearing by holding against the crankcase. the crankcase isn't and can't support the inner race of the bearing which is the part your pulling (or pressing) the crank arm through; it holds it by the case. I had a bearing go out within 500 miles starting making rattling around noises. i took the crank case half off using the heat it in the oven method and the bearing was bad, replaced it using the heat freeze method and never had a problem since then. Heat freeze is a nerve racking method and honda has the tool to do it with. Make sure if you get it to get the right parts. I bought one claimed to be it and there was nothing that would slip around the crank arm and through the case seal part and hold against the inner bearing race. Honda sells it in 2 parts and some places got both of them together in one. I haven't tested mine yet but, i remember seeing it recently online with both together for like 60 bucks. I just bought the one half used off ebay and the other one I bought has a tool to pull against the other tool with and grab hold of the crank arm with. I'm just telling you about my experience and my think through of why. Check yours and see if it does ok for you. But it is some stress on the bearing when you first install it. Why its not good is its pulled through the bearing through the interference fit of the inner race by the crank arm. Instead of holding the bearing by the crank case on the outer race the bearing is put in the case and stops up against that, hold the race in which your pressing the part through the bearing with as you do it. Say that it might last you a while but if you have a problem, you know how to do it. I did find a use for my tusk crank puller tho. The crank arm seems to be a little off center sometimes in the boost port after I install a crank, it will hit further on one side than the other. And I didn't pay attention once and just fit the cylinder on and had the piston installed, and I turned the motor once and the cylinder was being pushed off. I heat up the case a little and use the tusk crank puller to center it while its warmed up a little. I checked the Honda tool and heres how it fits and slips over the crankshaft arm all the way down to the bearing fit surface. Like a glove. I found one for 60 bucks searched online with both parts in the picture. part numbers are in the service manual you can find online. I have had the Tusk puller for quite a while now and dont really use it that much for the very reason you mention. You can easily minimize risk by using it in certain ways. For this install I used the hot cold method to place the bearings on the crank. Then I used the hot cold method to mate the crank to the small case half. I did not want to heat up the large case half due to the extensive use of JB weld in them, so I used the tusk puller to pull the crank/small case half into the large case half. I chilled the bearing a bit first and oiled up the bearing seat in the case. It all went together so smoothly I may do it this way from now on. It is much easier on the bearing doing it the way I did, not ideal like using hot/cold method to do the entire process, but good enough for me and definitely easier on the bearings than trying to pull the crank through a bearing. |
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Post by oldgeek on May 27, 2023 22:40:24 GMT -5
Still cannot find the damm rings for this triport. I may have to actually clean up Scootopia in order to find them. It might be easier to just source some from somewhere else. Its like I got 100 gallons of stuff in a 50 gallon drum over there.
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Post by oldgeek on May 29, 2023 16:57:01 GMT -5
I found...........the top of one of my work benches today after cleaning it off, but no rings. Ill probably head back over there this evening and continue the spring cleaning.
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Post by oldgeek on Aug 12, 2023 20:37:47 GMT -5
I found the rings for the triport! The triport is not a tadia brand cylinder but I put the triport rings in a tadia cellophane for safe keeping. I must have overlooked them a dozen times, I am terrible about keeping stuff together.
I am working on other motor setups ATM, but I really should throw this one together now that I have the rings.
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Unless malossi is shipping the 538471 crank out by mistake, and in the wrong box? Stupider things have happened!
