2004 Vento Triton Revival

[billwill]

Hey all,

Decided to finally join the forum and get a build thread out there for my 2004 Vento Triton R4. I picked this thing up wayyy long ago around 2008 or so after getting bored with my Vino 4T and have had a bunch of fun tinkering with it since. I didn't even have it titled in my name up until a couple of weeks ago. Slapped an ORV sticker on and that was that. I remember back when I had this thing running before in Maryland you didn't need any registration or insurance or anything. Good times.

I was really excited to see that another member here (admin I'm pretty sure), had the same model as me and he had done extensive testing, tinkering and documentation on his build(s) and setups with that bike. Reading your posts and build thread has helped me immensely, so thank you. I even used your tail light mod to get a similar setup going.

Old Setup

I got the scooter in stock form back in 08 or so and threw a whole bunch of parts at it. Around 2010 or so I had it finally running pretty well. Back then I had it fitted with: 

- Malossi MRH 70cc kit
- Yasuni C20 pipe
- Dellorto 21mm carb (90 main, 40 pilot and needle in 2nd notch from the top)
- CVT setup:
  - Malossi multivar variator w/3.2g rollers
  - some belt I forget the specs on 
  - Delta clutch w/malossi red torque spring and black (not sure what brand but very stiff) clutch springs

I let the scoot sit for YEARS and stopped riding and messing with it maybe in 2012-ish or so. I dug it out of storage a couple of months ago and began to work on it to get it running. This thing was in dire shape, there were cicadas in the gas tank and mice had created nests in a couple areas. Nasty stuff.

New/Current Day Setup

I wanted a more streetable kit and I just remember it being such a pain to tune (carb AND CVT combined) so I went with the following for this new setup and this is how it currently sits today:

- Stage6 Streetrace 70cc (cast iron)
- Yasuni R pipe

Most of the other parts I am reusing. The dellorto may be overkill for this cylinder but I have it running pretty well now with a 36 pilot jet, 85 main, and the needle clip on the 2nd notch from the top.

I just recently picked up a Runleader tach/temp combo from Amazon as a gut check on CHTs. It sits nicely at around 220-260º cruising around and during some of the hotter days last week it did get up to around 330-340º for a long, uphill WOT run of about 2 miles. I am going to probably ditch the Runleader and finally hook up the Koso temp guage (on the bars). I never had a temp lead for this and finally found one online. Should be here today. It will be interesting to see how the Koso temp reads vs the Runleader and compare the two.

For the transmission, I have found the following to work pretty well in its current form:
- 6g rollers
- Malossi yellow clutch springs
- Malossi yellow torque spring
- Malossi 6117087 belt (Lenght= 800 mm, Width= 16.9 mm, Height= 8 mm, 28°)
  - I went with this belt because the one I had in it seemed to be too short and not traveling up the variator all the way

I'll be sure to post some more detailed pictures but here are a few of how it currently sits. She's running pretty good and I have seen consistent speeds of around 59-61MPH (phone/GPS verified).

Future Plans & Questions

I am sure I will be posting more here but my current list of things to do with the bike are:
- figure out a weird issue with the (i think) carb tuning where there is a lean or rich bog starting from a stop in the 1/4 - 3/4 throttle range
- possibly move down in main jet size (plug chops have been kinda wet)
- might switch from the BR9HIX plug I was using with the MHR cylinder to BR8HIX (may help with the above)
- the bike seems like its 'over-revving' around 9k rpms, like it gets there and fast but vibrates like hell from about 8700-9000
  - could be the clutch bell doing something
  - could be the yasuni R is just too much pipe for this kit?
  - could be that i need to move up from 6g rollers to 7g?
  - shorter (just slightly) belt? could be belt slap but from what I've read that typically occurs at lower RPMs/speeds
- fix the JANKY zip tie tail light setup and add back some aftermarket turn signals (no turn signals right now )

[aeroxbud]

That Yasuni R should be pretty perfect for the street race. You should see somewhere over 10,000rpm no problem.
It might be worth checking the tires as it's been standing a long time. They can get flat spotted quite easily standing a long time.
I would personally change them now anyway.
I would guess the vibration could be CVT related. It doesn't take much if something is out of balance to cause quite a lot of vibration at higher revs.

[oldgeek]

I agree with everything aeroxbud said.

When you get time list all of your carb components. needle#,slide# and type of airbox or pod. Ill dig around in my old threads and see if I can be of any help.

[billwill]

Jun 22, 2023 16:41:47 GMT -5 aeroxbud said:

That Yasuni R should be pretty perfect for the street race. You should see somewhere over 10,000rpm no problem.
It might be worth checking the tires as it's been standing a long time. They can get flat spotted quite easily standing a long time.
I would personally change them now anyway.
I would guess the vibration could be CVT related. It doesn't take much if something is out of balance to cause quite a lot of vibration at higher revs.

Yeah the R seemed like the best pipe for this and even a sport cylinder if I decide to upgrade to something in between this and the MHR that I removed. Interesting you say 10k rpm because it wants nothing to do over about 9-9.5k. It could be that the tachometer is off so I might try re-wrapping the pickup lead around the coil wire.

I have been thinking about ditching these tires. They are almost 20 years old at this point but you would never guess it. Going to order some soon. Probably a ticking time bomb.

I agree that it’s probably not the tires though because the vibration occurs regardless of speed but with engine RPM. The way the bike is tuned now (from a transmission perspective) it revs high with full throttle right after off the line so the vibrations occur then (maybe around 5-10mph then the belt begins to travel up on the variator and the rollers kick in and it climbs steadily up to full speed where the vibrations occur again from around 45-60 (again, really only with full throttle).

I am running quite a bit of shims so I have been thinking about taking a few out and seeing what happens. I also ordered some 7g rollers that I honestly think will be too heavy but I’m going to give it a shot and see. Maybe mix them with the 6g rollers in there now. When I was originally running 5g rollers when I first out this together the bike ran well too (with more frequent vibration at full throttle) but I like the better top end with the 6’s.

I wonder if it could be clutch bell related? I notice when I rotate the clutch bell by hand with the cvt cover off and go one way then the other it has a decent amount of play to it, almost like the teeth are worn. Is that normal? I also notice that the shaft has a decent amount of play too it with the clutch off. I can grab it by hand and move it at least a couple mm in each direction.

Jun 22, 2023 19:42:43 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

I agree with everything aeroxbud said.

When you get time list all of your carb components. needle#,slide# and type of airbox or pod. Ill dig around in my old threads and see if I can be of any help.

The carb I’m using is a dellorto phbg 21mm (black edition, but that probably doesn’t matter).

Right now I’m running the following:
- 85 main
- 36 pilot
- w16 needle (pretty sure but will double check tomorrow)
- needle clip is set on 2nd notch from the top

I am running the needle in this rebuild kit: scooterswapshop.com/products/dellorto-phbg-rebuild-kit

I also have a W7 needle that was in the carb before I rebuilt and cleaned it.

Not sure on the slide #. I will check. Is there a marking on it? I’ll admit I have been putting off getting too involved in anything with using a specific needle or slide but perhaps this is where I need to go next.

The air box I am using is just this cheap replacement I got off Amazon.

Air Cleaner Filter & Box For Polaris Predator Scramble Sportsman 50 90 50cc 90cc 2 Stroke Engine ATV Quad 0451080 01 02 03 04 05 06 a.co/d/jk9rkmM

I have the snorkel removed. But maybe this thing is too small and not allowing for enough air. Any sense in drilling holes in it?

I also have a uni filter that I was trying before this and had it jetted with a 40 pilot and 94 main and it was running equally as good with that but just too loud.

Thanks for all the help, appreciate it guys.

[aeroxbud]

That air box should be fine with your setup.

[oldgeek]

Jun 22, 2023 21:53:03 GMT -5 billwill said:

.............I wonder if it could be clutch bell related? I notice when I rotate the clutch bell by hand with the cvt cover off and go one way then the other it has a decent amount of play to it, almost like the teeth are worn. Is that normal? I also notice that the shaft has a decent amount of play too it with the clutch off. I can grab it by hand and move it at least a couple mm in each direction.

It sounds like you may need to take a good look at your gearbox. Backlash of several mm when you turn the clutch bell is normal but if you can move the primary shaft a few mm in any direction that is not a good sign. It may be as simple as a new bearing on the primary shaft. Also check the outboard bearing in CVT cover.

[billwill]

Jun 23, 2023 5:37:36 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Jun 22, 2023 21:53:03 GMT -5 billwill said:

.............I wonder if it could be clutch bell related? I notice when I rotate the clutch bell by hand with the cvt cover off and go one way then the other it has a decent amount of play to it, almost like the teeth are worn. Is that normal? I also notice that the shaft has a decent amount of play too it with the clutch off. I can grab it by hand and move it at least a couple mm in each direction.

It sounds like you may need to take a good look at your gearbox. Backlash of several mm when you turn the clutch bell is normal but if you can move the primary shaft a few mm in any direction that is not a good sign. It may be as simple as a new bearing on the primary shaft. Also check the outboard bearing in CVT cover.

Gotcha, yeah this has been my fear. I really didn't want to have to get into that but it may be that I need to. The bearing you speak of seems fine. When I spin it by finger it spins freely and smoothly but the "play" in the clutch shaft is concerning. 

What would be a good direction to go in with finding bearing replacements and even new primary gears? From what I understand the Triton comes geared pretty tall from the factory so I think I would look to match what I have now. Could maybe even go a smidge taller but not sure what folks might recommend. I'm seeing a top speed of about 60mph right now with full belt travel at about 9k rpm.

[oldgeek]

Gearbox disassembly. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/351

Bearing info. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/6145/minarelli-clone-bearings-seals-torque

I would check your current gear ratio by marking the clutch bell and wheel, then turn the bell and count how many turns are required to make the wheel completely revolve 1 time.

Your speed and RPM are very good, many have tried and failed to reach 60mph with a S6 cast iron cylinder, myself included.

[billwill]

Jun 23, 2023 14:15:03 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Gearbox disassembly. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/351

Bearing info. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/6145/minarelli-clone-bearings-seals-torque

I would check your current gear ratio by marking the clutch bell and wheel, then turn the bell and count how many turns are required to make the wheel completely revolve 1 time.

Your speed and RPM are very good, many have tried and failed to reach 60mph with a S6 cast iron cylinder, myself included.

Thank you sir! I am going to dig into this reading tonight and will check my gear ratio tomorrow.

Confirmed I am actually using a W6 needle now and have a W16 on hand from my old setup. The slide is a 40. 

From what I can gather, the PHBG slides allow more air with the higher the number. So for example, a 50 slide would be leaner than the 40 I am running now. I may order a 45 and 50 if I can find them cheap enough and try that.

I should also note that I'm not sure if its just the larger carb setup or what but for what its worth I NEVER have to choke this thing to start it. Leads me to believe I am still running rich and may need to drop the pilot even more.

Also I was mistaken on rollers and am actually using 7g rollers now and was using 6g rollers previously. I now have a set of 8g that came in the mail today that I can begin to play with.





I also got some time last night to work on tidying the tail section up a bit. The tail light housing sits pretty far up under the back of the scoot but is still very visible when lit. I also wired up some cheap amazon turn signals with some stainless hardware. It is by no means clean or anything to be proud of but it is visible and bright. It'll do for now.

[billwill]

One more thing I have on my shortlist is to try swapping out the current plug I am running for a hotter one. I’ll have to post a pic for feedback of the current NGK BR9HIX but it seems wetter than it should be. I have a BR8ES on hand and was thinking of trying that. It very well could just be that the bike is running rich somewhere still.

[billwill]

Finally decided to order a set of Dunlop Scootsmart tires in 120/70 12 and 130/70 12. Seem to have pretty good reviews from the Grom crowd and I remember running Dunlops on my FZ-09 and liking them. Here's to hoping Chapparal Motorsports can kick these out of their warehouse in pretty short order.



When it comes to tires, I'm realizing how spoiled I've been with the fast shipping through prime and other stores. Might be 4 days before these even ship. Oh well, I have tires that work for now.

I also went ahead and ordered a 50 slide and pull choke from Treatland for the 21mm Dellorto. Looking forward to seeing what, if any difference that has on performance. I have always felt like the carb ran rich, even with the MHR kit I had on it previously, having to run the needle clip in the top or 2nd to top notch always. Specific needle may have an effect on this but I'm looking forward to trying it.

Slide: www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-carburetor-slide-sizes-30-40-50-60-p/dellorto-phbg-round-slide.htm

Pull Choke: www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-pull-choke-p/dellorto-phbg-pull-choke.htm

[mrchilled85]

nice looking build mate

[oldgeek]

Incase you dont have it yet, This is your best friend when tuning a carb.


I think you may want to try the W16 needle. The 40 slide should be fine. I dont think you will need a 50, you can modify a 40 to make it a 45 if necessary, a 30 may come in handy at some point. AFIK they sell slides only in 30,40,50 increments.

I think your current plug is the way to go. While I have seen a plug make a significant impact in a tune I usually reserve a plug change for after everything else is in a perfect state of tune, then I may try a different plug.

If you do not need your choke to start when the motor is cold, I would say you are correct in thinking you are possibly rich down low. A perfectly tuned carb should need to be choked on initial cold startup.

[billwill]

Jun 24, 2023 6:15:10 GMT -5 mrchilled85 said:

nice looking build mate

Thanks bud!

Jun 24, 2023 6:18:49 GMT -5 oldgeek said:

Incase you dont have it yet, This is your best friend when tuning a carb.


I think you may want to try the W16 needle. The 40 slide should be fine. I dont think you will need a 50, you can modify a 40 to make it a 45 if necessary, a 30 may come in handy at some point. AFIK they sell slides only in 30,40,50 increments.

I think your current plug is the way to go. While I have seen a plug make a significant impact in a tune I usually reserve a plug change for after everything else is in a perfect state of tune, then I may try a different plug.

If you do not need your choke to start when the motor is cold, I would say you are correct in thinking you are possibly rich down low. A perfectly tuned carb should need to be choked on initial cold startup.

I literally have this image saved to my phone and have used it in the garage, ha! Good reminder, and I should probably be looking at it more often. I have been using this chart as well that I found on another site for needles:



According to this, the W16 looks like it would give a generally leaner delivery, while the W6 a bit richer. Honestly, not sure what Dellorto was up to with the naming convention of these needles - its like they just want to make tuning their carbs that much more difficult haha.

I tried the W16 needle back before I had put enough miles on it to tell the difference and noticed no notable change, but now that I have ridden it more I don't disagree - it's worth a try. I may just try the slide and see what happens but good to know that you think 40 is tunable for this setup.

Noted on the plug. I'll admit the bike runs ok for now so I may be acting a bit picky or OCD but I'll see what I can do with the current 9 temp plug.

Appreciate the input on pilot setting. I just felt that anything into the low 30's for the pilot jet just seemed way too lean for this setup. I had read similar build threads with the 21mm Dellorto and similar cylinder setups and no one was jetted lower than where I am now (36 or 38, need to double check).

At one point in tuning, I had thrown in a 34 pilot and it ran ok but I think I was just nervous about seizure and didn't have a temperature gauge at the time, so I took it out. Might need to revisit.

[billwill]

Went ahead and threw the W16 needle in for now. Can't really ride or test since it's been so rainy here lately.

I also have been running the bike with just the stock airbox mated up to the 21mm Dellorto with no adapter, just threads. It worked but I had this 38mm adapter laying around and finally put that on.

www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-air-filter-adapter-p/phbg-velocity-stack-0422400.htm







Honestly, the filter fit better before adding this but I suspect using the adapter is how the carb is designed to work. Something something air turbulence and whatnot. We'll see how it goes. This is not a viable long-term solution and I don't have much trust in how it's put together right now. Squeezing the air filter hose over the adapter was a chore and stretch but it's solid enough to test.