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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 4, 2015 21:05:17 GMT -5
Iggy related shutoff?Once cool starts again.. It's possible. Unfortunately I haven't been smart enough to bring along tools on any of these rides. I'll get together a post with a little more detail. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 21:11:11 GMT -5
File this under for what it is worth:
One thing that had be puzzled... about 2 weeks after I got my scooter which was running great, it started acting up a bit. It would run good one time...then bog a bit and sometimes stall and was a little hard to start once in a while. I had watched a bunch of videos and read some of the blogs and decided to replace all of my fuel, filter and vac. lines so I ordered the tubing.
When I installed the tubing, I of course had to drain the tank and I was going to reuse the gas as it was 93 and I had filled up just a few days earlier. Well, to my great surprise, after draining the tank into a clear container...about the bottom third of that container was WATER!!!!
The rest of the fuel was very cloudy looking as well. I was amazed it ran at all!
We had three days of very hard rain and my scoot was uncovered at that time. I remembered reading on a blog that a guy found that his vented gas cap (with key lock like mine) had allowed water into his tank from rain. I dismissed that when I read it but, as it turns out...that's what happened to me. So, I made a nice cover for my gas cap that actually screws on (It is a beef bouillon container) into the surrounding body panels. I will take some photos later to show you all. I drilled 4 1/4" holes in the sides of the cover and now...rain is no problem.
My point is that even though my scoot started fine some of the time, and ran almost fine...that tank was chock full of water. I am suggesting that possibly you may have picked up some water in your fuel system either the way I did, or at the pump. The summer is a bad time for gas stations having water in the bottom of their tanks. It does not take much to do what you describe.
Now I know Brent that you have probably forgotten more about scooters than I will ever learn but, just suggesting that you check the fuel. Knowing what I know of your attention to detail, you probably already did this. If this is the case, then ignore my post.
Bill
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 4, 2015 21:37:09 GMT -5
Alright, so here's more detail on the dying out issue. I've never had one do this to me before, so any thoughts are appreciated. This is the very first time the engine died out on me coming to a stop. It happened on July 7. I'm providing dates so you can get an idea of the frequency. I make a lot of notes so I know it was 80F and about 70% humidity that night. It ran well up to this point. Take a look at the video : After the video I checked for loose connections, made sure there was fuel in the lines, and verified that it felt like it had compression. It refused to start, even after cooling down. I got a ride home in the truck. It wouldn't even start the next day. I ended up replacing the pickup coil after seeing an intermittent spark and not liking some test readings. It started after installing the new pickup. After that, I rode it on multiple occasions without issue. Skip forward to July 23. I went for a ride in the daytime after installing a new variator. It was about 82 degrees. It ran fine and then this happened : As you could see, it died again coming to a stop. I pushed it just up the road to a little clearing. I looked it over. Within 5 minutes it restarted and ran fine on the way home, but I did hold the throttle a little when coming to stops as a precautionary measure. I cleaned the carburetor thoroughly after that. The pilot jet appeared to be clogged. Strangely though, it used the exact same mixture screw settings and acted no different after. I rode many times and it seemed fine. Skip ahead to today, August 4. I took it for a ride to see how the CVT was doing after some issues mentioned in previous posts. It ran alright in the 90+ degree weather. Then it died as shown below : As shown, it died out coasting to a stop. It wouldn't restart at first. I pushed it about a half mile. I stopped once in maybe the first few hundred feet and tried it quite a few times and it still wouldn't start. I pushed it more and stopped in some shade. The battery got weak. I kicked it a couple of times and nothing. I gave it a few seconds. I kicked it again and got a pu-pu-pu-pu-puh. I thought, "great, there's hope". I kicked it again and nothing. Kicked it again and another pu-pu-pu-pu-pu-puh-puhh. One more time and it fired up. I rode away and it ran OK. Again I held the throttle a little at stop signs, just in case. When I got to my driveway I slowed and let completely off of the throttle, but it was fine. I quickly took my helmet, gloves, and jacket off since it was so hot out and then took the scooter out into the yard. I made many passes across the yard WOT and then letting off and stopping. I tried coasting stops and I tried running it up to as much speed as I could muster and braking hard before running into the woods. It ran just fine every time.  It seems like a pretty random thing. I've ran it on many hot days and to many stop signs, yet it only does it on three occasions from July 7 to Aug 4 over the course of a couple of hundred miles. The only thing I've noticed that may be related is that I get a miss at idle sometimes. It will do this cold or hot. Seems to be mixture related, because the wideband will always be in the 15-16:1 range when a miss occurs. Normal idle mixtures run from 14:1-16:1, depending on engine temp and weather variables. At this point my best guesses are something happening with the ignition or some sort of air cutoff issue with the carb. I'd think the carb would be way less random than this though. It's a tough thing to test for, because it only does it from time to time. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 4, 2015 21:40:54 GMT -5
PirateLabs : I have not checked the fuel, but there have been numerous fill ups along the way and this does not seem to correspond with any of them specifically that I can think of.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 21:54:54 GMT -5
Brent:
Same with me and my experience. The new gas just floats on top of the water in the tank and,the same thing in the carb fuel bowl. A clue I should have figured out was one time, when taking it off of the side stand, I decide to lean it over to check my ground clearance and...the engine quit. I was only leaning about 45 degrees to the left. Now I realize that I was simply dumping water into the carb from the bottom of the fuel bowl.
The company where I am posted for my security job owns like 50 gas stations (convenience stores) in my area and the guy that services the equipment at these stations told me there has been a lot of water in the fuel this summer for some reason. His job is testing the fuel and maintaining the dispensing equipment.
Of course, as I said, this may have nothing to do with what is going on with your Tao. I am looking forward to finding out what the problem is.
Bill
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Post by Fox on Aug 5, 2015 10:56:30 GMT -5
I'm sure you already checked but since I didn't see it mentioned anywhere I am wondering if the carb isn't simply running low on fuel due to a petcock/strainer issue or a fuel tank venting issue because it seems to start and run after sitting for a bit.
The electrical issue angle 190mech mentioned sounds possible as well. Maybe you can carry an extra plug with you and if it dies again you can immediately do a spark check before things have a chance to cool down.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2015 11:27:22 GMT -5
Fuel flow appears to be good. The vent should be fine, since if I look at it the wrong way it will spill gas when it's full. I have tried taking the cap off after it dies just to see if anything changes though and it does not. Float is set parallel to the carb top and moves freely.
I'm definitely going to put a plug or tester under the seat so I'll have it if/when it happens again. Planned to do that this morning actually, and forgot about it till your post. Thanks. I'll go put it in there now so I won't forget.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2015 21:54:44 GMT -5
I just rode around for an hour and a half on back roads, stopping frequently. Stupid thing wouldn't die on me. lol It was 80F tonight though and normally in the day when it's 90ish I'm seeing 250+ oil temps at times. Tonight only 210 max and mostly 185 cruising around. CHT peaked at 369, while it is regularly closer to 380 at least. Could just be that it didn't "feel like" doing it since it is kinda random or maybe it is indeed heat and I need to do this while the sun is out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 22:44:57 GMT -5
I just rode around for an hour and a half on back roads, stopping frequently. Stupid thing wouldn't die on me. lol It was 80F tonight though and normally in the day when it's 90ish I'm seeing 250+ oil temps at times. Tonight only 210 max and mostly 185 cruising around. CHT peaked at 369, while it is regularly closer to 380 at least. Could just be that it didn't "feel like" doing it since it is kinda random or maybe it is indeed heat and I need to do this while the sun is out. Well, maybe it is in the ignition system then if indeed heat is playing a role. I have had several cars over the years where the coil failed when hot...once cooled down...worked fine making it a real pain to diagnose. Swapped out the coil...no more probs. This will be very interesting to see what it actually is once you figure it out. I wish you good luck in doing that. Bill PS Of course it might be Gremlins. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 8, 2015 13:10:49 GMT -5
I rode 41 miles today. Won't die at a stop. It's just over 80F and windy, but still CHT got up to 380F at one point and 220F oil temp briefly. Now that I want a 95 degree day with the sun beating down it's supposed to be 80s for a bit and lots of clouds and wind and rain. Figures.
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Post by albongo on Aug 9, 2015 2:53:05 GMT -5
I'm interested in your findings Brent. This seems similar to what my scoot is doing and I can't work out why.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 9, 2015 12:29:53 GMT -5
It's a couple of degrees warmer today. Still not the temps that have my oil temp warning light going off (250F+) though. 30 more miles. No dying out.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 15, 2015 14:51:38 GMT -5
It's in the upper 80s today so I rode around for 2 hours. Still not the brutal heat that really gets things cooking, but I did see max CHT of 383F and as much as about 210F cruising oil temp (250F max at idle). The scoot never died.
I came home, pulled it straight onto the bench, and grabbed some tools. I checked and the pickup and area around the stator were all around 130-150F. I got a heat gun out and heated them to as much as 250F. Never died. I tried cutting it off and restarting it and it always started fine. I tried heating the coil a bit as well. Same deal. Not really a fan of heating up electronics, but I was hoping it would tell me something.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 15:02:47 GMT -5
Brent:
In thinking about this, I am convinced that you have to be at least 5 miles from home for it to die. 2 miles is not enough, nor is 3. It has to be 5 miles or more. Somehow, I don't know how, your scooter knows how far it is from home and will only quit when it is very inconvenient for you, ha ha.
But seriously, I was really thinking it would be the heat on one of the electrical components (since you have ruled out water in the fuel) but, since you heated everything up now I have no idea. Maybe it will never happen again? Murphy's Law indicates that it will only happen when you are a long pushing distance from home.
Bill
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 15, 2015 15:20:57 GMT -5
I actually took a couple of roads I don't know that are 15 miles or so from home to really test it since I'd have a hard time explaining where I was if it quit and wouldn't restart. lol
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