Genuine Roughhouse Back In Black built by Zino

[aeroxbud]

That's a right and weird collection of parts. It's half Minarelli, half 139QMB!
This is why this forum is so great. Nice work Hippo. 👏
Zino you really need to find your son one. Preferably a non runner/basket case, then build it together.

[Zino]

Threw a tach and gps on the stock set up just to see how the stock set up runs .

Idles at 2k rpm
Clutch engages at 3600-3800 rpm
At about 6k rpms I feel a shift here might be a dual angle Torque driver .
6700-6900 rpms is where the weights are set start shifting
Havent cracked the cvt but stock weights are in 7.5 or 8.5 grams.
The power band seems to be 6-8 k range
Peak rpm is 8100-8200 rpms
Top Speed 42 mph .

There might be a mile or 2 more on the table with lighter weights to get higher rpms and get better take off.

With a street pipe
I will have to put stiffer clutch springs all the street pipes fell spunkiest above 5 k rpms .
I also would probably drop the weights to a gram or two .
The dual angle torque driver I can power right through the shift.

ordered a keihn jet kit and shims so I can adjust the needle .
I will have to order some 14 mm shims for the tranny .

After a 100 miles of riding 67 mpg is where she is at stock with the way I ride WFO.

[Zino]

gutiwarrior has a template for a build


49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/27166/roughhouse-50-sport

Doing a quick build on a rough house.

Malossi sport 70cc
Multivar variator
Malossi Flip exhaust
19mm dellortto carb with malossi air intake
Stock clutch and bell
Belt malossi 6118140 which is listed as 16x8x751
11-1 gear setup. malossi secondary gears 15/42 m6714774

My carb setup is 42 pilot and 92 main.
Clutch setup is red springs, white centra
Variator set to 33 grams.

What I’m facing now is the belt still has a little more room on the rear pulley as well as the front pulley. I can obviously shim but will only fix one side. I can’t find a slightly larger belt unless I’m doing something wrong with the cvt setup. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Currently clocking at 57gps @ 175lb rider at sea level

[lunatuck]

Jun 13, 2021 16:07:20 GMT -5 Zino said:

gutiwarrior has a template for a build


49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/27166/roughhouse-50-sport

Doing a quick build on a rough house.

Malossi sport 70cc
Multivar variator
Malossi Flip exhaust
19mm dellortto carb with malossi air intake
Stock clutch and bell
Belt malossi 6118140 which is listed as 16x8x751
11-1 gear setup. malossi secondary gears 15/42 m6714774

My carb setup is 42 pilot and 92 main.
Clutch setup is red springs, white centra
Variator set to 33 grams.

What I’m facing now is the belt still has a little more room on the rear pulley as well as the front pulley. I can obviously shim but will only fix one side. I can’t find a slightly larger belt unless I’m doing something wrong with the cvt setup. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Currently clocking at 57gps @ 175lb rider at sea level

I think the front pulley’s just have that extra travel the stock belt cant reach. Same as the Buddy. I’ve always wondered if a longer belt could hit it, but never found a way, and then “upgraded” to a pulley with a smaller face.

It does seem like like the start of a Genuine compatible overrange.

[hippo008]

Zino, checkout the NCY secondary slider for the PGO motors. It was like $40 when I bought it and it's been great. It removes that shift at about 6000~ RPM. The belt travel problem is universal. I think Genuine put in a belt slightly too short to keep the Roughhouse under the 30MPH moped restrictions that most states have. With the restriction washer on the variator I think the belt is just the right length. When you remove it to gain more speed the belt is simply too short for full travel on both pulleys. I bet you could get a longer Kevlar belt and use that, but I've not looked into it yet.

I broke out the aluminum brazing rods and made up a quick exhaust bracket. It fits even better than my CAD bracket from SendCutSend. I just mounted up the bracket for testing purposes. Later I'll use a cutoff wheel and a flap disk to finish it. I'll take the dimensions off it and redesign the bracket in CAD. Zino if you want a bracket for the R I'm happy to make one, I already have the tools and parts. I can't promise it will be pretty but it will fit and that's half the battle. I'm excited to watch this build come together

[captincvmn]

Interesting how similar yet different this manufacturer has made this machine. Reminds me of my 1990 Isuzu pickup truck. Amazing machine with ZERO aftermarket support. Yet Toyota had tons and tons of parts available. 🤷‍♂️

[Zino]

Jun 13, 2021 15:45:28 GMT -5 aeroxbud said:

That's a right and weird collection of parts. It's half Minarelli, half 139QMB!
This is why this forum is so great. Nice work Hippo. 👏
Zino you really need to find your son one. Preferably a non runner/basket case, then build it together.


My son is already looking on Facebook Marketplace .

He is going to want to build a Loud and Obnoxious Racier Build.

I figure I will learn the ins and outs of this Scoot over the next year and look for on for him .

[Zino]

Jun 13, 2021 17:49:44 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

Zino, checkout the NCY secondary slider for the PGO motors. It was like $40 when I bought it and it's been great. It removes that shift at about 6000~ RPM. The belt travel problem is universal. I think Genuine put in a belt slightly too short to keep the Roughhouse under the 30MPH moped restrictions that most states have. With the restriction washer on the variator I think the belt is just the right length. When you remove it to gain more speed the belt is simply too short for full travel on both pulleys. I bet you could get a longer Kevlar belt and use that, but I've not looked into it yet.

I broke out the aluminum brazing rods and made up a quick exhaust bracket. It fits even better than my CAD bracket from SendCutSend. I just mounted up the bracket for testing purposes. Later I'll use a cutoff wheel and a flap disk to finish it. I'll take the dimensions off it and redesign the bracket in CAD. Zino if you want a bracket for the R I'm happy to make one, I already have the tools and parts. I can't promise it will be pretty but it will fit and that's half the battle. I'm excited to watch this build come together

Thanks for the Offer Hippo on the Yasuni Bracket .
I probably just need the CAD .

You might be on too something with that belt size as a way for them to gear down the scoot 
I am doing the sharpie test today to see how much travel I get on the stock build.
the back pulley at rest looks like 6 mm .
The stock roughhouse belt is 738x18x30 

I saw that NCY slider ncystore.com/ncy-secondary-slider-dio-get-qmb
For a Racier Build it would be needed because that wierd shift can drop you out of the power band when you come off throttle.
On a Street build the low starting wide powerband lets you push right through the shift.

[lunatuck]

If it’s like the Buddy, that shift is a pain. It definately hurts hill performance. I had to step up with the contra spring and that required heavier weights and lower rpm.

I think that secondary may be part of the solution, but I never tried it.

[hippo008]

Jun 14, 2021 7:44:23 GMT -5 Zino said:

Jun 13, 2021 17:49:44 GMT -5 hippo008 said:

Zino, checkout the NCY secondary slider for the PGO motors. It was like $40 when I bought it and it's been great. It removes that shift at about 6000~ RPM. The belt travel problem is universal. I think Genuine put in a belt slightly too short to keep the Roughhouse under the 30MPH moped restrictions that most states have. With the restriction washer on the variator I think the belt is just the right length. When you remove it to gain more speed the belt is simply too short for full travel on both pulleys. I bet you could get a longer Kevlar belt and use that, but I've not looked into it yet.

I broke out the aluminum brazing rods and made up a quick exhaust bracket. It fits even better than my CAD bracket from SendCutSend. I just mounted up the bracket for testing purposes. Later I'll use a cutoff wheel and a flap disk to finish it. I'll take the dimensions off it and redesign the bracket in CAD. Zino if you want a bracket for the R I'm happy to make one, I already have the tools and parts. I can't promise it will be pretty but it will fit and that's half the battle. I'm excited to watch this build come together

Thanks for the Offer Hippo on the Yasuni Bracket .
I probably just need the CAD .

You might be on too something with that belt size as a way for them to gear down the scoot 
I am doing the sharpie test today to see how much travel I get on the stock build.
the back pulley at rest looks like 6 mm .
The stock roughhouse belt is 738x18x50 

I saw that NCY slider ncystore.com/ncy-secondary-slider-dio-get-qmb
For a Racier Build it would be needed because that wierd shift can drop you out of the power band when you come off throttle.
On a Street build the low starting wide powerband lets you push right through the shift.

I'll look around and see if there's a longer belt available for the Roughhouse. I need one too. I marked the front and rear pully with a paint pen and got the same results as you.Im sure Dayco makes something.

I'll get on that CAD later this evening.

[Zino]

Jun 14, 2021 8:32:42 GMT -5 lunatuck said:

If it’s like the Buddy, that shift is a pain. It definately hurts hill performance. I had to step up with the contra spring and that required heavier weights and lower rpm.

I think that secondary may be part of the solution, but I never tried it.

The Yasuni R power band starts right around where the torque driver shifts so that would pull you out of the powerband .

The street pipes power starts lower so you dont even notice it .

Those dual angle torque drivers are fine for stock power band they actually help but the higher level of performance or narrower powerband they have that weird shift that gets magnified .

[Zino]

here are the pictures front and back pulley
Stock front pulley drive face is 95 mm so it is larger than the Stock Zuma which gives more potential the toothpick mark is at 5mm .
The front pulley has 4mm left and Back pulley has 6mm left .
Taking the lower of the 2 and using High School Geometry and real world experience with the Zuma's Budget Overrange . We went from a 738 to 775 size belt by going with a 4mm larger front pulley and a 7mm larger back pulley
Stock Belt is mitsuboshi 738 x 18 x30 it is 8 mm deep.
I did not verify the length manufactures are all over the board for lengths I prefer the roll them along the table for measuring .
If Mitsuboshi had belts in this range 
A belt  around 750 with the 18 inch width is what I would target.
Or in the mid 740's with a 18.5 inch width .
Otherwise I will have to change belt brands and remeasure 

[Zino]

Stock belt is a Bando 738 length x 18 width x 30 degree angle 8mm depth .

Malossi belts for the Kymco 4t might be a size larger
6113501 743x18x30 9mm depth
6111153 734X18.2 X30 8mm depth

these fit the buddy 125 would have to shim front pulley
naraku NK900.73 743x20x30
gates has 743x20x30
bando has 743 x20 x30

different angle of 28
gates 748x18x28

Those are the choices I am leaning to the one of the Malossi Belts
I can always bolt it on to my future Malossi Order.

I have to roll out the mitsuboshi belt to verify measurement .
I just need to get a 14mm impact socket so I can take off the clutch .

[lunatuck]

Do you have much room to shim the front pulley? I run out of spline on the Buddy. I’m concerned that both shimming to drop it further and longer belt to get full travel are needed, but both seem hard to solve.

[Zino]

I just measured I Have up to 1 mm on the front and up to 3mm on the back to space it out.

What size bando belt are you running on your buddy .
And how much belt travel are you getting front and back .
I am trying to source belts .

Bando is real consistent on there sizing .
When you measure like this .
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7oGuQLrGzs&ab_channel=PartsForScooters