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Post by 190mech on Apr 29, 2019 19:48:22 GMT -5
Old geek gifted me a pile of scoot parts a while back including a complete AF16 motor and a bunch of aftermarket parts(Thanks OG!!)..The AF16 is quite a different design from the Mina stuff Ive worked with,but thought it would be an interesting change,I liked the fact that longer stroke cranks could be had over the Mina's,so the provided Tiada 49.6mm stroke crank was the choice,a 50mm Tiada cylinder assy was ordered so it would be the ideal 'square bore/stroke'combination..Cut the cases to fit the bigger OD crank;  Had to hack out a "C" port tunnel in the case for the bigger cyl;  The cylinder looked nice out of the box,but turned out to be a ton of work to get even close!OG said his 50mm cyl was miles off(he is right!),but he chose a longer 52.+mm stroke crank later and that made it waaay better..My cyl had the been cast with the transfers and exhaust crooked(core shift),had to deck 1.7mm off the deck to get the squish close,with the thick base gasket the transfers were the ideal 130 degrees,but had to cut 1.5mm off the transfer bottoms to match the piston dome at BDC..Ex dutation was a tiny 172 degrees and I wanted 190 degrees.. Had a heap to cut out,then found the casting was too thin above the ex port for that amount!I decided to try the Frits Overmars radiused port method;   Had to make a sheet metal reed box to angle the reed toward the duct in a straight shot,used my favorite KX65 reed assy;    Thats it for now,will finish the reed box and move on to getting the cases finished.. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Apr 29, 2019 19:59:35 GMT -5
So much for bolt on and go... Makes you wonder about the guys that run these cranks and cylinders with nothing more then a basic tool set. It’s in good hands now.
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Post by Jwhood on Apr 29, 2019 22:08:20 GMT -5
Can't wait too see what comes of this!!!
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Post by benji on Apr 29, 2019 22:47:04 GMT -5
So much for bolt on and go... Makes you wonder about the guys that run these cranks and cylinders with nothing more then a basic tool set. It’s in good hands now. when I started getting to know a little bit about scooters, I jumped over to Yamaha quick. Kinda funny to see these numbers and realities posted by a real engine builder, people been talking about Honda stroker "powah" for years now. Apparently it was all talk haha. |
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Post by benji on Apr 29, 2019 22:53:57 GMT -5
Had to make a sheet metal reed box to angle the reed toward the duct in a straight shot,used my favorite KX65 reed assy Thats it for now,will finish the reed box and move on to getting the cases finished.. btw, you can get a CT 'big valve' manifold for dio (af18) to fit this motor and that kx65 reed block, but usually the casting is so far off that you have to grind out a bunch of the inside to fit an actual KX65 Reed block and you have to deck the mating surfaces to make it seal, and it comes with an almost 90° bend in the carb mount so it isn't a straight shot... Never mind, building one is a better option haha. |
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Post by oldgeek on Apr 30, 2019 1:19:13 GMT -5
I feel like there are or at least were, some bolt on and go setups for the Honda vert that are respectable. But the production of anything decent is likely long gone. Now all that is produced are unpolished turds. Many of us know the feeling of satisfaction in getting a 2T build to perform the way we want it to. For me the feeling is even better when you start with a pile of almost nothing like we have here, and turn it into something great. Go 190mech ! |
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Post by aeroxbud on Apr 30, 2019 1:51:17 GMT -5
Well that's about as far from plug and play as you're going to get. You wanted something different. 😉
Should be a good build though.
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Post by benji on Apr 30, 2019 9:14:24 GMT -5
Kind of makes you wonder when people talk about how fast they are haha. When I started learning about scooters, I quickly jumped over to Yamaha. Way better motor haha.
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Post by pitobread on Apr 30, 2019 12:15:29 GMT -5
Hondas are cool cause they are so small. But yeah the motors are just not crazy capable due to limited availability of go fast things. Not like a Yamaha or my current favorite Piaggio.
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Post by 190mech on Apr 30, 2019 16:44:26 GMT -5
I agree friends!The Mina platform is what Ive been running for years,,the Honda is just a new hill to climb,perhaps a Piaggio(125/180) next??  |
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Post by repherence2 on Apr 30, 2019 21:14:21 GMT -5
Kind of makes you wonder when people talk about how fast they are haha. When I started learning about scooters, I quickly jumped over to Yamaha. Way better motor haha. There are some really fast Hondas on Oahu. A lot more fast Hondas here than fast Minarellis. Kinda gotta have $ to go fast on a Minarelli here on Oahu because parts are really expensive. The fast Minarellis are rare here, but they no fuk around. They run 2Fast or Stage6 R/T stuff, Polini Evo, even the big (90+ cc) Stage6 R/T. A former coworker of mine was a tuner at Qwik Fix Cycles. He built a 90+ cc Elite that looked stock because it had a stock pipe that was modified. That bike could wheelie and it was fast too. |
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Post by benji on Apr 30, 2019 23:10:27 GMT -5
Kind of makes you wonder when people talk about how fast they are haha. When I started learning about scooters, I quickly jumped over to Yamaha. Way better motor haha. There are some really fast Hondas on Oahu. A lot more fast Hondas here than fast Minarellis. Kinda gotta have $ to go fast on a Minarelli here on Oahu because parts are really expensive. The fast Minarellis are rare here, but they no fuk around. They run 2Fast or Stage6 R/T stuff, Polini Evo, even the big (90+ cc) Stage6 R/T. A former coworker of mine was a tuner at Qwik Fix Cycles. He built a 90+ cc Elite that looked stock because it had a stock pipe that was modified. That bike could wheelie and it was fast too. how fast could it be with a stock pipe? That's kind of what I mean. People always talk about how fast the Honda Motors are. Then they talk about a guy who Built a stroker and used an oem 49cc pipe that pretty much stops at 9k. And my minarelli parts come from the internet, not locally. My Yamaha stuff is way cheaper than my old Honda Stuff, and I only had an aero and an 87 elite. I never had the expensive Motors. I think the reason why there are more fast Hondas in Hawaii than fast Yamahas and chinarelli is because Hondas are more popular there. And I love the look of the Hondas, but I just don't believe the performance is there. |
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Post by 190mech on May 1, 2019 1:07:50 GMT -5
I think either can be a strong runner,they both have their design flaws..It is about what the parts availability is in that area..Both were designed to haul people and their baggage at slow speeds all over the world and are far from an ideal race rig!A decent amount of turd polish is needed to get either making power...  |
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Post by aeroxbud on May 1, 2019 5:03:33 GMT -5
I agree friends!The Mina platform is what Ive been running for years,,the Honda is just a new hill to climb,perhaps a Piaggio(125/180) next?? If you go to the Piaggio platform, have a look at the PM tuning stuff. They have been making fast parts for Piaggio for years. Their 172cc kits are 25hp at the rear wheel, but designed with porting in mind. |
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Post by benji on May 1, 2019 9:18:08 GMT -5
Saw this chart online, looks fairly accurate.  |
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